Holden Cup nearing the end?

 
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 6, 2014, 7:46 pm
Holden Cup nearing the end?

THE Holden Cup under 20s competition may only have one year to go if a joint proposal to the NRL by the Queensland Rugby League and NSW Rugby League gets up.

The proposal, which has been made to the NRL, is for the under 20s competition to come under the umbrella of the state bodies with each Intrust Super Cup and NSW Cup side having a 20s side playing under their club’s banner.

“There is an acknowledgement now that perhaps the NYC competition isn’t achieving what we hoped it would achieve nationally,” QRL chairman Peter Betros says.

“The Queensland Rugby League and the NSW Rugby League have come up with a proposal that has gone to the NRL to replace the NYC with a state based under 20 competition where every Intrust Super Cup (and NSW Cup) team would have an under 20s side.”

The 20s would play before the Cup sides.

Read more: http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/holden-cup-nearing-end/
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 6, 2014, 8:13 pm
I am constantly left gobsmacked by the incompetence of the NRL. The QRL and NSWRL matches, are, frankly, extremely poor quality compared to Holden Cup. This is a blatant attempt from the "State leagues" to re-establish their "primacy", but it will be to the detriment of rugby league.

David Smith is the worst CEO in the history of any major sports league in Australian history, surely. A decent commission would stand up to this sort of rubbish.

Very sad.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 6, 2014, 8:14 pm
I guess it's the final step for the NRL clubs. They get to shed two of three grades now. It's not a club anymore, it's a "franchise". Very disappointing. They charge the same, and we'll now get one match.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 6, 2014, 8:18 pm
Its only a proposal right now.

Im sure there were other articles about the NYC and how they were looking at changing it or getting rid of it. I'll try and find them

It is enjoyable to watch but I dont think its the best prep for FG and we have seen Sticky shift players out of it and play them in the State Cups as a preference to ready them for FG.

I would prefer all clubs to have their reserve team and then an age based comp like 20s under that team

Good ole days when we had reserves and U21's
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 6, 2014, 8:21 pm
If it happens, the Raiders must surely establish their own "second grade" team. I'd be very disappointed if they did not.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 6, 2014, 8:22 pm
NYC must take step back for game to go forward

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... z2OOnqlTWw
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 6, 2014, 8:27 pm
NRL considers funding all junior development in a major revamp of the game's pathways

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 02ig4.html
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Yes, the campaign for the forces of darkness has been going for some time.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: December 6, 2014, 8:46 pm
I smell a draft
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Don Furner
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What the chap with green eyes said. **** me, its not broken.
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Bradley Clyde
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 12:07 am
I want a pepper reserve comp with no QLD or NSW cup.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 6:05 am
Holden cup has become a bit of a joke. Most clubs have come to the realisation that the model for the lower grade comps are a bit of a farce, so they are consolidating their best reserve grade and U20's players in the VB Cup and Intrust cup teams. I used to go and watch the 20's every week, but over the last couple of years towards the end of the season it's like watching a game of touch footy with half the team made up of players from SG Ball.

Something needs to change.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 7:08 am
Green_Hammock wrote:I want a pepper reserve comp with no QLD or NSW cup.


That would make much more sense.

If the other proposal eventuates, the Raiders should have their own Canberra Raiders teams in NSW Cup, however.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 8:57 am
Seiffert82 wrote:Holden cup has become a bit of a joke. Most clubs have come to the realisation that the model for the lower grade comps are a bit of a farce, so they are consolidating their best reserve grade and U20's players in the VB Cup and Intrust cup teams. I used to go and watch the 20's every week, but over the last couple of years towards the end of the season it's like watching a game of touch footy with half the team made up of players from SG Ball.

Something needs to change.


Im tending to agree.

We saw this year quite a few Raider boys been moved up to NSW cup. Its weakening the NYC.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 9:03 am
The Panthers started it the year before. Gould is pushing for the end of NYC... If something must change, I'd rather see the age limit raised. At worst a national open age reserves competition.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 9:56 am
Just bring back reserve grade already
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 10:10 am
Wasn't Gould one of the guys that pushed for the cup originally?
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 10:11 am
Oh yeah, South Aucklanders love the Holden Cup. I swear some of them know far more about it than the NRL.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 12:35 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:Holden cup has become a bit of a joke. Most clubs have come to the realisation that the model for the lower grade comps are a bit of a farce, so they are consolidating their best reserve grade and U20's players in the VB Cup and Intrust cup teams. I used to go and watch the 20's every week, but over the last couple of years towards the end of the season it's like watching a game of touch footy with half the team made up of players from SG Ball.

Something needs to change.


I was the same, didnt miss a 20s home game in about 5 years. I could probably count the number of games ive watched live in the last two seasons on one finger.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 1:11 pm
I watch every one live at home. And every one on TV. It's MUCH more entertaining football than NSW Cup, by a LONG way.
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 1:16 pm
I'm going to miss the NYC if it goes.
I love the touch footy before the real stuff starts.
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This is a good move.
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Don Furner
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No it's not.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 2:43 pm
Its definitely on the decline and the value to FG isn't what it was supposed to be
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Dean Lance
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 2:44 pm
greeneyed wrote:No it's not.


Sadly your views on rugby league are becoming obsolete and dare I say it, almost akin to John McIntyre? Irrelevant, laughable, and no one takes them seriously anyway?
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I took out the bit about being a git in a purple suit, but now I wish I hadn't!
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 4:24 pm
greeneyed wrote:I watch every one live at home. And every one on TV. It's MUCH more entertaining football than NSW Cup, by a LONG way.

Some people may be entertained by 17-20 year olds racking up a cricket score against each other, but that doesn't make it better quality football.

This is not akin to the system in the US where kids go straight out of college into the pro's. The U20's is not the second tier of league in this country, even though the NRL and Fox Sports currently promote it as such.

That's not to say that the 20's should be abolished - because it's an important stepping stone for the vast majority of players into the senior grades - but there is no way on earth the quality of football in the 20's is better than in the NSW or QLD cup competitions. The clubs know that and it's why the number of players coming into FG straight out of the 20's is rapidly diminishing.

The 20's needs to be retained, but system needs an overhaul. If Fox covered the reserve grade comps rather than the 20's I think the outcome would be much better for the sport.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 4:30 pm
It was better quality but for the last 2 years its been in rapid decline.

The juniors are getting promoted to NYC and the NYC players get promoted to the State cups. It has taken a lot from the NYC comp but added to the quality of the State comps.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 4:30 pm
Except that the quality of the reserve grade competition is pretty darn awful. Why put rubbish games on TV? I'd much rather see the top young players coming through, in entertaining games, rather than dead ordinary reserve graders.
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Bradley Clyde
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PostPosted: December 7, 2014, 5:02 pm
They're better off consolidating nyc and over age players by allowing a limit of players over the age of 20 in each team (say 3 or 4)
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 8, 2014, 9:07 am
Well said chach
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 8, 2014, 9:19 am
I'm with GE on this one, still a fan of the u20s concept and hope it stays.

It's still the main stepping stepping stone for first grade and which other sport in Australia can offer their juniors a televised competition, would be an attraction for kids to play league IMO.
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PostPosted: December 8, 2014, 9:52 am
I think it's a great concept, but should be extended to u23's to allow the next gen footballer who is not quite at FG level but too good for NSW/QLD Cup to play. It will make it more exciting and also probably draw a larger crowd as more well known first graders can drop back in the debut/2nd years when seniors come.back from injury etc.
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PostPosted: December 8, 2014, 11:29 am
greeneyed wrote:I am constantly left gobsmacked by the incompetence of the NRL. The QRL and NSWRL matches, are, frankly, extremely poor quality compared to Holden Cup. This is a blatant attempt from the "State leagues" to re-establish their "primacy", but it will be to the detriment of rugby league.

David Smith is the worst CEO in the history of any major sports league in Australian history, surely. A decent commission would stand up to this sort of rubbish.

Very sad.

You are constantly left gobsmacked becuase you constantly believe that they are making the wrong decisions.

I fully expect good decisions to be made and you will still criticize it. This is very reminiscent to your Edwards hate.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 8, 2014, 12:09 pm
Lucy wrote:I think it's a great concept, but should be extended to u23's to allow the next gen footballer who is not quite at FG level but too good for NSW/QLD Cup to play. It will make it more exciting and also probably draw a larger crowd as more well known first graders can drop back in the debut/2nd years when seniors come.back from injury etc.

Perhaps increasing the age limit is the answer, but there is still the question of a transition between SG Ball and an under 23's comp (which is basically open age by that stage). Not all 18 year olds coming out of the Ball comp will be physically ready to play U23's.
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