Holden Cup nearing the end?

 
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: December 8, 2014, 12:58 pm
Bring back the Presidents Cup and Reserve Grade!
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Ricky Stuart
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PostPosted: December 8, 2014, 8:33 pm
I thought there was talk of moving it to week days?
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 8, 2014, 8:34 pm
cat wrote:I thought there was talk of moving it to week days?


Which is even more ridiculous on the part of the NRL.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 9, 2014, 6:05 am
Week days? Now that's a ridiculous move.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 10, 2014, 6:42 am
Lucy wrote:I think it's a great concept, but should be extended to u23's to allow the next gen footballer who is not quite at FG level but too good for NSW/QLD Cup to play. It will make it more exciting and also probably draw a larger crowd as more well known first graders can drop back in the debut/2nd years when seniors come.back from injury etc.


This is very strange... but i think lucy has nailed it on this occasion
U20's is a good idea but they've got the the bar set too low, kids arent being allowed to develop properly

Maybe each 20's side should be allowed to have a quota of overaged players in their squad.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR....
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 10, 2014, 11:09 am
greeneyed wrote:I took out the bit about being a git in a purple suit, but now I wish I hadn't!

Please try to cut out the personal attacks, thanks.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: December 14, 2014, 8:16 am
Its a bit of a shame, it was a great comp at first. You could see how woeful it had become this year though.

It sounds like the new set up makes it even more important to get our own side in the NSW cup.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 14, 2014, 1:53 pm
The NYC concept was a good one - particularly the requirement for every first grade club to field a team and that all participants were to be undertaking some sort of training and education qualification.

Unfortunately it came at the cost of funding and promoting a proper 2nd tier competition. It didn't take long for the smart clubs to realise that focussing on the 20's and ignoring the development of players into first grade was a pretty flawed structure. The way the whole thing was set up was never going to work in the long run.
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David Grant
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PostPosted: December 14, 2014, 5:46 pm
I don't think I'd care too much if the Holden Cup finished up... I agree with everyone who stated they want reserve grade back... A national first grade comp would be a good transition if you used the Q Cup and or NSW Cup as feeder teams for young players...
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 14, 2014, 6:27 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:The NYC concept was a good one - particularly the requirement for every first grade club to field a team and that all participants were to be undertaking some sort of training and education qualification.

Unfortunately it came at the cost of funding and promoting a proper 2nd tier competition. It didn't take long for the smart clubs to realise that focussing on the 20's and ignoring the development of players into first grade was a pretty flawed structure. The way the whole thing was set up was never going to work in the long run.


This is why I love you chachi. You and Dr Zaius.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: December 15, 2014, 6:42 am
dubby wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:The NYC concept was a good one - particularly the requirement for every first grade club to field a team and that all participants were to be undertaking some sort of training and education qualification.

Unfortunately it came at the cost of funding and promoting a proper 2nd tier competition. It didn't take long for the smart clubs to realise that focussing on the 20's and ignoring the development of players into first grade was a pretty flawed structure. The way the whole thing was set up was never going to work in the long run.


This is why I love you chachi. You and Dr Zaius.

I knew there was somebody else in this relationship dubs...but Dr Bits? Tell me it's just about his money and fancy cars!
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: December 16, 2014, 12:24 pm
I am with GE, 20s is good.

I think junior pathways are far far more important then secondary semi pro comps.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: December 16, 2014, 5:22 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:
dubby wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:The NYC concept was a good one - particularly the requirement for every first grade club to field a team and that all participants were to be undertaking some sort of training and education qualification.

Unfortunately it came at the cost of funding and promoting a proper 2nd tier competition. It didn't take long for the smart clubs to realise that focussing on the 20's and ignoring the development of players into first grade was a pretty flawed structure. The way the whole thing was set up was never going to work in the long run.


This is why I love you chachi. You and Dr Zaius.

I knew there was somebody else in this relationship dubs...but Dr Bits? Tell me it's just about his money and fancy cars!


That's TR, mate
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: June 5, 2015, 9:36 am
Broncos coach Wayne Bennett says NRL should axe under-20s if clubs want more cash


BRONCOS coach Wayne Bennett has called for the NRL to axe the under-20s competition to deliver a $1 million windfall for club bosses threatening a revolt against the ARL Commission.
A Sydney-based faction is turning up the heat on the code’s governing body, with Roosters patriarch Nick Politis and Penrith supremo Phil Gould leading a backlash over the NRL’s funding structure.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/bronco ... 7383600267
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Bradley Clyde
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PostPosted: June 5, 2015, 10:03 pm
Course it works for the broncos and their million feeder teams
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: June 5, 2015, 10:18 pm
VictorTheViking wrote:Course it works for the broncos and their million feeder teams


The Broncos opposed it from the start. We should ignore the self interested clubs when it comes to refusing to make contributions to development of players.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: June 5, 2015, 10:32 pm
I reckon pumping the money into a mirror 2nd tier comp would of been better
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: June 5, 2015, 10:34 pm
Tim W wrote:I reckon pumping the money into a mirror 2nd tier comp would of been better


I'm not sure why. Most of the pLayers in those comps are players who won't make NRL.
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Bradley Clyde
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PostPosted: June 5, 2015, 10:54 pm
greeneyed wrote:
Tim W wrote:I reckon pumping the money into a mirror 2nd tier comp would of been better


I'm not sure why. Most of the pLayers in those comps are players who won't make NRL.

And if they scrap 20s itll only be filled with 20s players anyway...

Theyd be better off extending sg ball and harold matts seasons, or as pigman suggested allowing a quota of over age players
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: June 7, 2015, 7:53 am
The under-20s competition is set to be scrapped at the end of next season

THE under-20s National Youth League Holden Cup competition could be scrapped at the end of next season with it’s future to be discussed at a meeting of club chief executives next week.

The financial stress and weekly logistic strain on clubs, coupled with what value it is worth to Holden Cup broadcaster Fox Sports ahead of a new TV broadcast deal in 2017 has created serious discussion among NRL powerbrokers that the 20s competition is on borrowed time.


http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/the-un ... 7386146529
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: June 7, 2015, 1:11 pm
I wouldn't mind seeing NYC stay as a 3rd tier comp but that won't happen.

The issue is the gap from that to 1st grade is to big. If the NRL want to get serious about how to fix these issues and widen the talent pool they need to piss the NSW & QLD comps off. These guys are self serving and don't care about anything but themselves.

The NRL needs to have a national reserve grade. They can split it into conferences but it could include the exisiting teams if they want and any teams that can afford to enter or twams that want into the NRL (Perth, 2nd NZ Team etc). This could be sold to sponsors and TV easily. Having a unified 2nd tier comp would be more beneficial to the NRL than the current set up. You could even adjust Harold Matts & SG Ball to feed into this.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: June 7, 2015, 1:14 pm
greeneyed wrote:
Tim W wrote:I reckon pumping the money into a mirror 2nd tier comp would of been better


I'm not sure why. Most of the pLayers in those comps are players who won't make NRL.


Same as most of the players in 20's won't either
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: June 7, 2015, 1:27 pm
But at least those blokes play exciting footy, and have potential. NSW Cup is a snore fest half the time. I also can't see the NSW and Queensland rugby leagues allowing NSW and Q Cups being pushed into the background for a national reserve grade comp.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: June 7, 2015, 1:57 pm
greeneyed wrote:But at least those blokes play exciting footy, and have potential. NSW Cup is a snore fest half the time. I also can't see the NSW and Queensland rugby leagues allowing NSW and Q Cups being pushed into the background for a national reserve grade comp.

No they won't hence why i said the ARLC needs to serioulsy sit down put this all together and then get a blueprint out for all to see about how a national 2nd tier comp would be more beneficial for the game. The players, the clubs, the money and the coverage both tv and radio etc. If they get it right the fans will want it and the states won't be able to stand in the way. They would have to be included anyway.
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PostPosted: June 7, 2015, 9:22 pm
Holden Cup Under 20s gives NRL an advantage over rugby union, says Warriors CEO Jim Doyle

The NRL could lose an advantage it has over rugby union if it scraps the Holden Cup. Warriors chief executive Jim Doyle believes it is crucial for the game, especially in New Zealand, that the NRL continue to run a high-profile under 20s competition.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-l ... hij4k.html
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: June 7, 2015, 9:47 pm
The Sydney clubs and private clubs are wanting to be single team franchises. This is what this is all about.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: June 8, 2015, 10:21 am
They still could in a national reserve grade. NYC could be a tertiary comp
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: June 8, 2015, 9:35 pm
As with all these decisions it is difficult to know what is the real driving factor.

I think sponsorship may be a part of this push. Holden is withdrawing from manufacturing locally next year. The Holden brand will still be around but all the vehicles will be imported. Naming rights on a 'junior level' competition would be hard to justify at General Motors HQ in Detroit. If the sponsorship is withdrawn then there are only a few options: a) find another sponsor - not easy b) scrap the comp or c) the NRL picks up the cost of the comp.

If we take Wayne Bennett's comments as fact, then the Clubs would each save $1m per season by axing the U/20s. The NRL is apparently making handy profits. Do they pick up the $16m tab??
They have pushed for junior development to be the responsibility of each Club, so I can't see David Smith dipping into the NRL coffers to financially support this grass roots part of the game. It seems a bridge to far for the NRL to directly support junior development. So the option left standing is b) scrap the comp.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: June 8, 2015, 9:38 pm
RedRaider wrote:As with all these decisions it is difficult to know what is the real driving factor.

I think sponsorship may be a part of this push. Holden is withdrawing from manufacturing locally next year. The Holden brand will still be around but all the vehicles will be imported. Naming rights on a 'junior level' competition would be hard to justify at General Motors HQ in Detroit. If the sponsorship is withdrawn then there are only a few options: a) find another sponsor - not easy b) scrap the comp or c) the NRL picks up the cost of the comp.

If we take Wayne Bennett's comments as fact, then the Clubs would each save $1m per season by axing the U/20s. The NRL is apparently making handy profits. Do they pick up the $16m tab??
They have pushed for junior development to be the responsibility of each Club, so I can't see David Smith dipping into the NRL coffers to financially support this grass roots part of the game. It seems a bridge to far for the NRL to directly support junior development. So the option left standing is b) scrap the comp.


Selling the naming rights to a nationally known competition, with at least two games on national TV each week is an easy sell. The competition doesn't depend on the sponsor, it depends on the TV deal. Fox won't want so much of their Saturday and Sunday line ups cut out. There will be a demand for extra TV product. Just what it is, is the issue.

The clubs would save money by axing the competition, and frankly, it's chicken feed for each club. Losing it is highly detrimental to the development of players for the competition.

The clubs are narrow minded and self centred. We know they don't want to put money into junior development.

Well if they don't, the NRL should subtract it from their deal and invest it in junior development.

It should be a zero sum game for the clubs and made clear it is.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: June 11, 2015, 7:38 pm
From a commercial standpoint, you'd think the NRL would be best off encouraging the clubs to continue investing in junior development by retaining the U20's comp (or some variation of the concept) and part-funding each club to specifically maintain those teams.

Whether the U20's constitutes our second tier competition (which is the way it is marketed now) is another matter entirely. There is nothing wrong with televising the competition, but it shouldn't be regarded as a proxy reserve grade competition.
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PostPosted: July 31, 2015, 6:27 am
Tackle One – Goodbye to Holden Cup, Rookie Draft

Shane Richardson has barely been seen nor heard since reporting for duty as Head of Strategy at the NRL in March. He’s spent the past four months devising a blueprint for the game’s future, and only now are the details starting to come to light. Richardson and fellow NRL big wigs are almost halfway through visits to all 16 clubs, during which they have been presented Richardson’s vision of rugby league’s long-term complexion.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/league/a/29 ... im-wilson/
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PostPosted: July 31, 2015, 3:09 pm
Hope it is abolished soon. Bring back Reserve Grade!
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: July 31, 2015, 3:48 pm
Reserve grade is hopeless and slow.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: July 31, 2015, 8:31 pm
Dead. As. A. Doornail.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: July 31, 2015, 8:48 pm
greeneyed wrote:Reserve grade is hopeless and slow.


Mate, the NYC is a joke.

Can't tackle.
Aren't ready to play against men.
And the elephant in the room, these kids feel as if they haven't cracked nrl at 19, they're career is over.
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