NRL consider revolutionising third party payments

 
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 9:22 pm
NRL consider revolutionising third party payments to aid struggling clubs

The NRL is considering toying with the third-party payments made to players outside the salary cap as the gulf between the rich clubs and the struggling teams widens.

The NRL has become increasingly concerned with the amount of third-party arrangements some clubs have compared with that of the lower ranked teams. Club chief executives were told of the NRL's moves to review the current third party arrangements by the NRL's head of integrity Nick Weeks during the two-day conference of club bosses at Rugby League Central on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... z3kZyqj900
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 9:27 pm
Wow, it's taken them this long to work it out.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 9:44 pm
I await something actually occurring with bated breath.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 9:45 pm
:clap: :clap: :clap:
:welcome: to reality NRL.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 9:46 pm
Let me give you Nickman's hot tip - it ain't gonna happen
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 9:46 pm
The review finds the third party arrangements are too complicated. All forms of third party payments become legal.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 9:47 pm
T_R wrote:Let me give you Nickman's hot tip - it ain't gonna happen


What? Schifty will vote liberal and worm will stop creating new account?
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 9:52 pm
T_R wrote:Let me give you Nickman's hot tip - it ain't gonna happen


You keep Nickman's hot tip away from me thanks!
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John Ferguson
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 10:36 pm
Maybe if the NRL commission actually investigated actual cases such as Milford being half market value on the Broncos cap. Instead of some wishy washy media leaks that go nowhere, the NRL might improve the sport as a whole and gain some kudos for managing the real issues.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 2, 2015, 10:40 pm
Even blatant salary cap issues, like at the Broncos.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 7:19 am
Big Sports Breakfast ‏@skybigsports 4m4 minutes ago
Kent: Third party deals are the biggest blight on the game. @NRL

Big Sports Breakfast ‏@skybigsports 36s36 seconds ago
Kent: You'll never stop the brown paper bag payment, but what the @NRL need is access to players' tax returns, and players' wives' returns.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 7:35 am
Raidersrawesome wrote:Big Sports Breakfast ‏@skybigsports 36s36 seconds ago
Kent: You'll never stop the brown paper bag payment, but what the @NRL need is access to players' tax returns, and players' wives' returns.


I've been banging that drum for years. The TPA system can be policed if the NRL/ARLC actually want to police it.
They need to interogate those deals to the finest degree they can, and they need access to the players taxation details...

Make it a standard in all NRL contracts that each player must submit theirs and their significant others tax returns to the NRL yearly for introgation. And make the players salary public.
If a player doesnt wish to do that, want to have privacy like a regular employee? No worries, go and dig ditches for 40k a year like a regular employee.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 7:38 am
I don't think you CAN contract to provide someone else's tax return.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 7:47 am
T_R wrote:I don't think you CAN contract to provide someone else's tax return.


Yeah you'd know way more than me about this sort of thing, but i have to think there is some way that the NRL can mandate it that they must be informed of the details of any employee picking up a 2nd "job".

It just astounds me that no other league in the world has the level of salary cap issues that RL has, they must be doing something we arent to ensure everyone is playing ball.
The reason the TPA's and salary cap is a big issue, IMO, is simply because the NRL have never bothered to scrutinise the deals or the players earnings to the level required. You cant tell me that the Storm would get away with their systematic rorting in any other league, it just wouldnt happen.
Last edited by Pigman on September 3, 2015, 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 7:49 am
Sorry, I meant wives/partners/significant others
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 7:56 am
T_R wrote:Sorry, I meant wives/partners/significant others


Ahh ok. Yeah that makes sense.
Maybe it's not tax returns, i mean if they scrutinised the deals closer and had all the financials of their players, it shouldnt be hard to figure out which players might be rorting the system and then request those details from the partners etc in NRL hearing... id imagine those with nothing to hide wouldnt have much problem handing over tax details to clear their partners name so long as confidentiality was maintained... i dunno, as i said, it just astounds me that the NRL has a huge salary cap scandal every other year and no other salary cap league has these problems
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 8:01 am
Pigman wrote:
Raidersrawesome wrote:Big Sports Breakfast ‏@skybigsports 36s36 seconds ago
Kent: You'll never stop the brown paper bag payment, but what the @NRL need is access to players' tax returns, and players' wives' returns.


I've been banging that drum for years. The TPA system can be policed if the NRL/ARLC actually want to police it.
They need to interogate those deals to the finest degree they can, and they need access to the players taxation details...

Make it a standard in all NRL contracts that each player must submit theirs and their significant others tax returns to the NRL yearly for introgation. And make the players salary public.
If a player doesnt wish to do that, want to have privacy like a regular employee? No worries, go and dig ditches for 40k a year like a regular employee.

The AFL has very similar rules, they are just policed more stringently and its less of a problem. Off course restricted free agency and the draft helps there....

The idea the AFL is toying with of a soft cap on spending is also one we should be considering. Essentially if teams pay above a certain amount running the football club, they pay a tax.

Anyway, im not expecting much

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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 10:01 am
The NRL can basically use the next TV deal to get the players to agree to whatever they want, provided they are willing to pay them enough. It wouldn't extend to getting a hold of their wives tax returns, but it could lead to things disclosing their earnings or Internal drafts.

Given the NRL cites privacy concerns for not disclosing what even a club has registered in TPAs, I don't see it happening though. I reckon this is just a PR exercise given the dominance of the top 3 and particularly the Roosters and their ridiculous squad this season.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 5:04 pm
The only way i see is to have all players employed by the nrl, managed by nrl employees with the clubs abiding by a set of contract rules but all monies payed by the nrl. thry already effectively pay the players as each club receives a grant equal to the cap.
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Bradley Clyde
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 5:10 pm
bonehead wrote:The only way i see is to have all players employed by the nrl, managed by nrl employees with the clubs abiding by a set of contract rules but all monies payed by the nrl. thry already effectively pay the players as each club receives a grant equal to the cap.

That is probably one of the only ways you'd go close to evening out the talent
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 5:20 pm
I know it's not straight forward but it would have to be a major improvement
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Jason Croker
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 6:08 pm
I just figured the NRL didn't care about any extra money that was getting put into the game. Tbh I would much rather see the TPA's and salary cap be clamped down on rather than a keep-superstars-at-all-cost mentality. It's a blight on the game
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 8:46 pm
Just get rid of the salary cap and put another side in Brisbane to reduce the Broncos' buying power. It ain't perfect but it's a lot more cheat-proof (and honest) than any other suggestion
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 9:14 pm
Big Jack wrote:Just get rid of the salary cap and put another side in Brisbane to reduce the Broncos' buying power. It ain't perfect but it's a lot more cheat-proof (and honest) than any other suggestion

I'm partially of this mind set. The NRL needs to either sort it out and enforce the rules or abolish the salary cap. Enough of this charade. I'm sick of Broncos and Roosters fans pretending that every club is operating on an equal footing.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 9:29 pm
Why a blowout in third party deals could damage the NRL's pay TV hopes
Roy Masters

A rapid escalation in third party payments, concentrated in a small number of NRL clubs, threatens the competitive balance of the game, leading to blow-outs in matches, a turn off to TV viewers and a devaluing of future media rights. With four games per week available for sale to broadcasters and another two years to run before the deal is finalised, the NRL is concerned payments outside the salary cap will produce a "have" and "have not" club divide, resulting in late match blow outs, falling TV ratings and decline in interest from advertisers and subscribers.

Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-l ... z3kfrCS9jK
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 9:48 pm
Concerned about. They've fed it
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 3, 2015, 10:00 pm
To illustrate how concentrated TPAs are, consider that there is a possible 9.6m available under the marquee allowance and only about a third is actually used. So even when clubs can go out and find deals many are unable to hit close to 600k. It follows that those clubs players won't find many deals on their own if they dont with the clubs help under the marquee cap.

It wouldn't surprise me if the difference in the real cap between top and bottom clubs is close to 30% before anyone even considers the dodgy deals.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 4, 2015, 7:10 am
Pigman hit the nail on the head. The NRL has never bothered to clamp down on the rorts. Why bother changing rules you never enforced?
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 4, 2015, 9:57 am
Maybe it's at the stage where enough clubs that actually matter to the NRL are seeing they are unable to compete under the current system. It might be impacting more than just the punching bag clubs like us and they are under a lot of pressure to keep the clubs happy at the moment.
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PostPosted: September 4, 2015, 10:13 am
I'll believe it when I see it.

The rich are getting richer and the poor get the picture.

Ha Oils quote.....
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John Ferguson
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PostPosted: September 4, 2015, 11:58 am
-PJ- wrote:I'll believe it when I see it.

The rich are getting richer and the poor get the picture.

Ha Oils quote.....


I certainly believe that when it comes to reporting on and promoting a breakaway competition, News Limited must have a "Short Memory"
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David Grant
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PostPosted: September 5, 2015, 6:00 pm
I don't disagree that the roosters and the broncos benefit greatly from third party deals, however, I still think that capping all 16 clubs at the same value isn't fair either...

There are clubs out there with their hands out to the nrl because they are struggling to keep their doors open yet they get to spend the same on players as the other clubs... I think this is a bigger problem at the moment...

Maybe the way forward is for the cap to be split into categories... Like say a development cap, a loyalty cap and a recruitment cap... Or something to that effect with players falling into one category...
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 5, 2015, 6:15 pm
86 invader wrote:I don't disagree that the roosters and the broncos benefit greatly from third party deals, however, I still think that capping all 16 clubs at the same value isn't fair either...

There are clubs out there with their hands out to the nrl because they are struggling to keep their doors open yet they get to spend the same on players as the other clubs... I think this is a bigger problem at the moment...

Maybe the way forward is for the cap to be split into categories... Like say a development cap, a loyalty cap and a recruitment cap... Or something to that effect with players falling into one category...


The only reason to have a salary cap is to ensure that all teams spend the same. It is certainly fair to ensure that happens.
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Jason Croker
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PostPosted: September 5, 2015, 6:21 pm
It's no coincidence that the last 2 teams on the ladder prior to this round (Knights And panthers) had 1 SOO rep between them while the top 2 teams Broncos and roosters have about 17 between them. Think it has more to do with TPA's than coaching given that Cleary won coach of the year not long ago
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David Grant
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PostPosted: September 5, 2015, 6:48 pm
greeneyed wrote:
86 invader wrote:I don't disagree that the roosters and the broncos benefit greatly from third party deals, however, I still think that capping all 16 clubs at the same value isn't fair either...

There are clubs out there with their hands out to the nrl because they are struggling to keep their doors open yet they get to spend the same on players as the other clubs... I think this is a bigger problem at the moment...

Maybe the way forward is for the cap to be split into categories... Like say a development cap, a loyalty cap and a recruitment cap... Or something to that effect with players falling into one category...


The only reason to have a salary cap is to ensure that all teams spend the same. It is certainly fair to ensure that happens.


Poorly run clubs do not deserve to have everyone else pick up the slack for them... Put the roosters and the broncos aside for the moment (because I agree that they are major benefactors of the third party system)... Do you think that basket case clubs who are currently being propped up by the nrl deserve to spend the same amount of cash on marquee signings as the raiders? We actually sit below quite a few teams on the ladder that we shouldn't in the name of 'fairness'...
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