2017 NRL Finals Wk 1: Teams and Game Day

 
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Brett Mullins
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PostPosted: September 10, 2017, 11:36 pm
The main talking point out of this game should be Taumalolo. Massive effort by the big fella.
That and Fifita running sideways and pushing a dumb pass to seal their fate.
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 8:53 am
the bone wrote:The cowboys should be favourites for next year. Add in JT, Scott and McLean to their current levels of attitude and commitment and you have a helluva side

Thats assuming JT's body holds together. Be interesting to see how Morgan plays with JT is back full time. Morgan's game went to a whole new level without without him.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 9:43 am
julian87 wrote:
papabear wrote:The eels will likely put a cricket score on them now though.


Disagree.

That win will take a lot out of them, and the eels are playing with a lot more crispness then the sharks.
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 10:20 am
papabear wrote:
julian87 wrote:
papabear wrote:The eels will likely put a cricket score on them now though.


Disagree.

That win will take a lot out of them, and the eels are playing with a lot more crispness then the sharks.

Logic says I agree. What often happens is Eels used up a lot of gas trying to beat Storm but came away empty handed. The let down from that can often have a bigger effect the following week than a tough 90 min battle. Cowboys will be physically fatigued but mentally buoyed.
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 1:50 pm
The Raiders were not playing but I have to say I enjoyed the footy and in particular the demise of Manly and the Sharks. Let the bleating begin - and it did.

Manly got a call in the match against Newcastle where Uate dropped the ball over the line and it was awarded a try. This poor decision got them into the final series and knocked out the Raiders reserves also known as St.George (Dugan, McCrone, Vaughan, Thompson).

Sharks play the grubbiest style in the NRL. At last they have a penalty count which reflects their style and it's all so unfair. boo hoo. The Cowboys are playing good footy with a depleted side. I'm glad they removed the grubs from the final series. New globes required for that porch light.
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 4:59 pm
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 8:20 pm
Funny to think those photos are only 4 years apart - he looks about 10 years older !
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 10:41 pm
I thought the Maloney sin bin call was similar to the Wighton one in the Prelim Final last year. Not arguing it wasn't cynical play and deserving of the sin bin - but it hasn't been called that way for 24 rounds. It is bizarre that they start dishing them out in the finals.

Also - a 5 minute sin bin for a professional foul and 10 minutes for violent conduct (i.e. punching) would really help the game.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 11:09 pm
the bone wrote:The cowboys should be favourites for next year. Add in JT, Scott and McLean to their current levels of attitude and commitment and you have a helluva side


I just can't see their lumbering backline winning a competition. Kyle Feldt is a gun but Linnett, Coote, Winterstein, O'Neill round it out to be the slowest back 5 in the competition. I'm still really, really surprised the club head into 2018 minus Ponga and with a 28 year old Lachlan Coote.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 11:11 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
papabear wrote:
julian87 wrote:
papabear wrote:The eels will likely put a cricket score on them now though.


Disagree.

That win will take a lot out of them, and the eels are playing with a lot more crispness then the sharks.

Logic says I agree. What often happens is Eels used up a lot of gas trying to beat Storm but came away empty handed. The let down from that can often have a bigger effect the following week than a tough 90 min battle. Cowboys will be physically fatigued but mentally buoyed.


100% agree.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: September 12, 2017, 6:29 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote:I thought the Maloney sin bin call was similar to the Wighton one in the Prelim Final last year. Not arguing it wasn't cynical play and deserving of the sin bin - but it hasn't been called that way for 24 rounds. It is bizarre that they start dishing them out in the finals.

Also - a 5 minute sin bin for a professional foul and 10 minutes for violent conduct (i.e. punching) would really help the game.


I think that's a fair call.

I'd like to see deliberate penalties like that regularly sin binned. That's not playing football.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 12, 2017, 8:24 am
5 min sin bin is a good idea
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Steve Walters
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PostPosted: September 12, 2017, 10:33 am
I thought the Maloney and Munster sin bins were justified. They both deliberately interfered with a player in a tryscoring opportunity to deny them a play at the ball. I'm not sure how you define a professional foul more clearly than that.

Notwithstanding the other points about the consistency of these things, that's an issue, but those 2 should always be called as a professional foul in every game.

The NRL is using this week as damage control and have found some friends. I guess in a way their messaging that officials don't cost teams games/seasons is a valid one. The thing is, this was always coming. How often has the average punter been bleating about the standard of officiating all season long? I can see why the NRL is deflecting the issue and the timing is probably right, but they also need to look in their own backyard and recognise that the opening weekend of finals was pretty bad from their end.
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PostPosted: September 12, 2017, 11:02 am
Notaroboticfish wrote:Image


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nailed it.

Flanagan is an idiot.

Sharks go out of their way each game to break the rules. I don't think wade Graham was ever onside this year.

He should shut up.
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PostPosted: September 12, 2017, 11:23 am
gangrenous wrote:
Roger Kenworthy wrote:I thought the Maloney sin bin call was similar to the Wighton one in the Prelim Final last year. Not arguing it wasn't cynical play and deserving of the sin bin - but it hasn't been called that way for 24 rounds. It is bizarre that they start dishing them out in the finals.

Also - a 5 minute sin bin for a professional foul and 10 minutes for violent conduct (i.e. punching) would really help the game.


I think that's a fair call.

I'd like to see deliberate penalties like that regularly sin binned. That's not playing football.

I like it. Teams will be a player short for 3-4 defensive sets at most so it will hurt but not a total game changer. Also mean Refs will be less afraid to use it. The bin will become more a part of the game which limits the controversy.

Professional /deliberate fouls or multiple offenses = 5 mins. We will see a lot less penalties being given away early in the tackle count in the attacking zone. Teams have been happy to give those away to disrupt the attack and give the defense time to organise itself. It they are likely to lose a player for 5 min then you won't see it anywhere near as much.
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PostPosted: September 12, 2017, 7:20 pm
Woodgers wrote:The NRL is using this week as damage control and have found some friends. I guess in a way their messaging that officials don't cost teams games/seasons is a valid one. The thing is, this was always coming. How often has the average punter been bleating about the standard of officiating all season long? I can see why the NRL is deflecting the issue and the timing is probably right, but they also need to look in their own backyard and recognise that the opening weekend of finals was pretty bad from their end.


I don't agree, I thought Barrett and Flanagan (and plenty of other coaches, ours is probably the biggest offender) are bringing the game into disrepute. The NRL need to get control of this as its becoming a distraction tactic for a lot of coaches.
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PostPosted: September 12, 2017, 7:55 pm
The thing is the NRL won friends this week because the coaches were largely bitching about decisions that were actually correct.

The assertion that the refs never decide NRL games is absolutely laughable though. Happens all the time. So don't buy all of Toddy and Archers BS.
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 7:09 am
gangrenous wrote:The assertion that the refs never decide NRL games is absolutely laughable though. Happens all the time. So don't buy all of Toddy and Archers BS.

Disagree. Referee decisions are part of the game but they very rarely decide the outcome.

This is the problem with the way coaches talk about referees. Constantly using them as an excuse for losses and not focusing on errors, tackles and poor decisions from their own players gives a false impression of the real impact referees have on the game. And that's a significant factor in why the public is losing faith in the referees. It's pathetic and detrimental to the game. If coaches and players led by example and refused to blame referees for losses, the game would be in a much better place.

Barrett and Flanagan should be ashamed of themselves. Particularly Flanagan who continued his rant the next day. But so should other coaches who, throughout the year, helped normalise using referees as scapegoats for their team's inability to get the job done.
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 8:31 am
lars wrote:
gangrenous wrote:The assertion that the refs never decide NRL games is absolutely laughable though. Happens all the time. So don't buy all of Toddy and Archers BS.

Disagree. Referee decisions are part of the game but they very rarely decide the outcome.


You must watch a different sport to me.

Rugby League is a close, low scoring game and incorrect decisions on penalties and tries change the course of games significantly.
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 8:38 am
I'm with lars
It's extremely rare that a poor refereeing decision changes the outcome of a game
For the most part the better team wins the game regardless of officiating

The carry on by Flanagan is embarrassing. He's made a real Rick of myself about it. Barrett too

The Cowboys and panthers were the better teams and they won the game. The rest of us can go and kick rocks and try and better
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 9:57 am
Yup, I'm with lars on this one too. Refereeing decisions go both ways and they even out over the course of the game. To focus on one wrong decision and ignore every decision that goes your way is the mistake so many coaches and fans make, and it's to help them distract from their team's poor performances.
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Terry Campese
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 10:50 am
gangrenous wrote:
lars wrote:
gangrenous wrote:The assertion that the refs never decide NRL games is absolutely laughable though. Happens all the time. So don't buy all of Toddy and Archers BS.

Disagree. Referee decisions are part of the game but they very rarely decide the outcome.


You must watch a different sport to me.

Rugby League is a close, low scoring game and incorrect decisions on penalties and tries change the course of games significantly.

I agree that an incorrect call can influence the momentum of the game. But it's very rare for any single refereeing mistake to decide the outcome of a game. And if didn't happen on the weekend either, despite what Barrett and Flanagan said.

Depending on the game, there can be somewhere between 5-12 handling errors per side. They can equally swing momentum. As can missed tackles and penalties and misreads in defence and poor fifth tackle options and missed conversions and seven tackle sets and team selections and interchange decisions and injuries. And wind and rain and crowd size/parochialism and player resilience. Etc etc. There are so many things that make up a game of rugby league. Refereeing decisions are part of that, but it's only one of many factors. That referees are so consistently criticised is unjustified and irresponsible when compared to the actual influence they have on the result.
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 10:56 am
It doesn't have to be one or the other though. I agree that players performing badly and making mistakes can cost games, so can the officials, and they definitely do.

I'm not sure why it's taboo to shy away from the fact that the game is in disarray when it comes to officiating. It's really poor and it needs addressing urgently.

There appears to be a notion with some people that to point out the officials are poor means that you're deflecting from your own team's poor performance and mistakes. That placing some blame on poor officiating is letting the players off the hook or something. Then again at the opposite end of the scale you have people who blame the officials too much and don't accept that their team was more at fault in a lot of cases. I honestly don't see why you can't be in the middle with a foot in each camp because both things often influence the results in the NRL. I don't want to see people push the boundaries and really blast the officials which reduces the amount of people willing to undertake the roles at all levels of the game, but at the same time it is fair to point out that Tony Archer and his team are not getting close to a pass mark. It needs addressing. I suppose it's the manner that it is done as well, and that is where some coaches over the last weekend did themselves a disservice (along with our coach during the season also).
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 11:08 am
lars wrote:
gangrenous wrote:
lars wrote:
gangrenous wrote:The assertion that the refs never decide NRL games is absolutely laughable though. Happens all the time. So don't buy all of Toddy and Archers BS.

Disagree. Referee decisions are part of the game but they very rarely decide the outcome.


You must watch a different sport to me.

Rugby League is a close, low scoring game and incorrect decisions on penalties and tries change the course of games significantly.

I agree that an incorrect call can influence the momentum of the game. But it's very rare for any single refereeing mistake to decide the outcome of a game. And if didn't happen on the weekend either, despite what Barrett and Flanagan said.

Depending on the game, there can be somewhere between 5-12 handling errors per side. They can equally swing momentum. As can missed tackles and penalties and misreads in defence and poor fifth tackle options and missed conversions and seven tackle sets and team selections and interchange decisions and injuries. And wind and rain and crowd size/parochialism and player resilience. Etc etc. There are so many things that make up a game of rugby league. Refereeing decisions are part of that, but it's only one of many factors. That referees are so consistently criticised is unjustified and irresponsible when compared to the actual influence they have on the result.

What a fantastic post. Spot on.
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 11:10 am
Yeah lars really nailed it there
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 11:25 am
Nah I disagree with that. However at least you've stated your case pretty well there lars so happy to agree to disagree.
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 11:47 am
Woodgers wrote:Nah I disagree with that. However at least you've stated your case pretty well there lars so happy to agree to disagree.

I don't want it to come across as if I don't think referees make errors. Or that some of those errors don't have a significant effect on a game. That absolutely happens. It's how often they have a significant effect on the outcome on a game or change the result that I'm sceptical about.

The officiating can absolutely be better, but using a post match press conference to criticise referees isn't the way to deal with it. Coaches have been doing it for ages, and have we seen an improvement? I'd suggest not.

A lot of the issues/controversy with refereeing at the moment, imo, are procedural. Referees are told to be game managers rather than officiators. How much the video ref can adjudicate on. Whether a ref sends something upstairs with an initial decision. What does 'sufficient evidence to overturn' mean? Etc.

I think that, overall, the referees don't do a bad job. They're working in a really tough environment. More replays than ever before. Super slow motion replays that pick up things you can't see in real speed. Insane media attention. Dedicated rugby league channels and programs that need content and ratings. Armchair experts on forums and social media being able to spread their critical opinions of referees further than ever before. (As an aside, it's a blight on sports journalism (and journalism more generally) when Twitter posts are embedded in online news articles. It outsources the journalistic responsibility in favour of hysteria. Do some actual analysis rather than just pretending every issue has two equally justifiable sides.)

Just my views and, as you said, happy to agree to disagree. This is how a respectful discussion about issues works - and nrl coaches could take note.
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 11:55 am
Absolutely spot on, lars. I couldn't agree more
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 12:29 pm
I agree with Woodgers and lars. I think the standard of refereeing is extremely poor, particularly given all the technological advantages at their fingertips. They certainly cost teams games. But there are a lot fewer games where refereeing error is the decisive factor, than claimed by the coaches. I have got to the stage where I really don't want to hear Ricky Stuart utter a word about the refereeing... as to do so has been letting the team off the hook for poor performance.

The thing I'm most concerned about is that the referees seem to consistently allow certain teams to do certain things... while penalise others.

I was astounded that the Storm and Sharks had players binned last week... for professional fouls... as they have consistently preferred to do anything in the red zone than concede points... yet they somehow have gotten away with it all season. The Storm get away with much more in the ruck than other teams - "because they're so good at it".

Other teams, like the Broncos, are allowed to consistently throw forward passes.

Those a just a couple of examples of what I put down to unconscious bias in the refereeing ranks. The sin binnings were perhaps one sign that they've finally realised that they've been consistently letting some teams get away with illegalities.
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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 1:28 pm
Its the consistency of the refs that annoy me, and how they dont referee the basics: forward passes, players offside, laying all over the ruck, even putting the foot on the ball in the ptb.

Its just annoying and it affects the game as a whole.

How did teams rectify our attack? By standing offside and lying all over the ruck. And the refs did bugger all about it.

(I'm not excusing the basic errors performed by our lot either)
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PostPosted: September 15, 2017, 1:35 pm
greeneyed wrote:I agree with Woodgers and lars. I think the standard of refereeing is extremely poor, particularly given all the technological advantages at their fingertips. They certainly cost teams games. But there are a lot fewer games where refereeing error is the decisive factor, than claimed by the coaches. I have got to the stage where I really don't want to hear Ricky Stuart utter a word about the refereeing... as to do so has been letting the team off the hook for poor performance.

The thing I'm most concerned about is that the referees seem to consistently allow certain teams to do certain things... while penalise others.

I was astounded that the Storm and Sharks had players binned last week... for professional fouls... as they have consistently preferred to do anything in the red zone than concede points... yet they somehow have gotten away with it all season. The Storm get away with much more in the ruck than other teams - "because they're so good at it".

Other teams, like the Broncos, are allowed to consistently throw forward passes.

Those a just a couple of examples of what I put down to unconscious bias in the refereeing ranks. The sin binnings were perhaps one sign that they've finally realised that they've been consistently letting some teams get away with illegalities.


The inconsistency is my biggest gripe, and if it was just inconsistency from different refs in different games then that's naturally going to happen to some degree. I get that each ref is their own person and within the bounds of the rules a level of common sense and game management (e.g. speed/flow) should be applied which will vary from ref to ref. It's when the inconsistency is from the same ref in the one game that it gets the most frustrating, and this is where I think GE's unconscious bias is showing through.

As for refs actually determining the result of a game, I think this is actually quite rare. IMO the only time this can happen is where an incorrect decision directly leads to a team scoring the winning points from behind, or incorrectly denying a scoring opportunity that would have resulted in a win. As Lars mentioned above about the multitude of factors that effect a game over the course of 80 minutes, I would have to say it's very difficult (nay impossible) to pinpoint a single factor that conclusively and absolutely is the difference between a win and a loss in all the games played over the course of a season, and refereeing decisions are no different to any other factor in this regard. There may be others, someone suggested the Uate try against the Knights (I didn't see that game), but the only one that springs to mind easily for me given that I mostly only watch Raiders games these days is the Manly try against us at the back-end of 2015 where they scored through a player (Brett Stewart?) who was in-front of the play the ball and therefore ineligible to play any part in that play.
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PostPosted: September 15, 2017, 8:46 pm
There is a difference between what you can prove conclusively and what is truth.
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