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Jason Croker
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PostPosted: January 8, 2018, 4:39 pm
-PJ- wrote:How good was Pat Cummins during the Ashes.

It looks like he's over those injuries now and bowling really well.

All the quickies were fantastic but I'd like to throw a special "well done" to Cummins.

Stay fit and rip into Safas champ...


Incredibly handy with the bat too
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: January 8, 2018, 5:04 pm
Busted fingers and crook in a game that means nothing and is virtually a foregone conclusion.

Don’t know why he came out today at all to be honest...
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 7:39 am
He's the captain. That's why he went back. If he had helped to save the game it would have been an "Ashes moment" the channel 9 team mentioned for the next 50 years and would have created an impressive legacy for him as a player and captain.

Agree it was a pretty boring series because the Australia bowling attack was too good. Anderson is a fine bowler but Broad sucked for 3 and a half tests. Woakes and Overton are ok but almost comparable to MMarsh. Ali was ok in Sydney but throwing pies everywhere else.

The series on English soil will be interesting if the Aussie bowling attack stay fit.

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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 7:49 am
I would really like to know what the selectors will do/ would have done, if Pattinson was fit for this series.
Would we have taken 5 bowlers and no allrounder to the Gabba?
OR... who would have been left out from Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins or Pattinson? Id think the lefty holds his spot, and Big Wood was just about the best quick in the world last yr. So its really down to the last 2.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 8:36 am
Could argue 'what ifs' forever but if Pattinson was fit and had performed ok in the Shield this season he would have got the nod ahead of Cummins for the start of the series. From that point they may have been more likely to rotate the fast bowlers i.e. Cummins would have played more than Bird did in this series.

As for playing 4 quicks, possible considering how strong Starc, Cummins and Pattinson are with the bat. All capable of knocking up good scores. There would still be a big question mark over Tim Paine as a reliable no6. He hadn't scored a lot of runs in Shield cricket in recent seasons. They picked him for his hands more than his batting.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 10:35 am
Northern Raider wrote:Could argue 'what ifs' forever but if Pattinson was fit and had performed ok in the Shield this season he would have got the nod ahead of Cummins for the start of the series. From that point they may have been more likely to rotate the fast bowlers i.e. Cummins would have played more than Bird did in this series.

As for playing 4 quicks, possible considering how strong Starc, Cummins and Pattinson are with the bat. All capable of knocking up good scores. There would still be a big question mark over Tim Paine as a reliable no6. He hadn't scored a lot of runs in Shield cricket in recent seasons. They picked him for his hands more than his batting.


True. Going forward, thoughts? If you were the coach to replace Lehmann, where would you go with things?

Paine:
He has proved that he is still a quality player. Avged 40 in the series, admittedly with two not outs, however on both occasions he was declared on and he was just short of a 50. Smith and Lehmann both said they believed Paine would avg more in Test cricket than Shield. A lot of that has to do with the pitches he would play on as a Test player, rather than his skill. He has always been a very good gloveman, finger and hand injuries are the reason Wade or even Nevill even got a run.

Marsh brothers:
I've always likened Shaun to Mark Waugh. Has always had the talent, but has that annoying inconsistency and never quite delivered on the talent people believed he possessed. He delivered this summer, but lets see if it continues. He has cemented his spot for a while. I've never been a Shaun Marsh fan, still not, BUT, when he wears the Baggy Green Ill support him, as I support the team.

Mitch, I first saw him in NZ playing as a teenager for the Jr Aussie ODI side. He was a gun! Opened the bowling then batted 4. He was Jacques Kallis in the making, and very exciting. Well, we all saw what happened with Mitch 1.0. A total disaster as a #6 bat, and a marginal allrounder bowler, a decent partnership breaker at best. Mitch 2.0 is a different story, he is still the power hitter, but he looks like he can actually survive good bowling now. 181 and 101 are testament to that, esp that 181, where he and Smith took us from a precarious position to one of complete dominance. However, since the shoulder injury, his bowling looks a little off the pace. With time, maybe he can return to that handy partnership breaker level from Mitch 1.0.

Khawaja:
I think he is a product of media pigeon holing. Lazy or elegant? Which is it? Sure, he is a laid back character, but that's Uzi. He is still a prolific run getting in State cricket, and again, showed this summer that he has the talent at this level.

The question is, can he do it everywhere? Well, we wont know if they don't try him. I loved the comparison to Ponting. Made 17 runs at an avg of 3 in his 1st tour of India, Harbajahan (I think) had him tied up in knots. He is Australia's most prolific Test batsmen. Uzi probably wont reach those heights, but the point is, you need to show him the faith and time he deserves.

Warners opening partner:
Renshaw or Bancroft? Do we go back to Burns? Does Shaun Marsh come up the order, and we find a middle order guy OR go with potentiall risky option of 4 quicks? Hell, even Uzi could open, last time he did he made a 100 in a day night Test, coz Warner was off the ground while fielding. I'm sure Doolan or Cowan would love another run at it too. Really really tough IMO.

The two youngsters probably deserve some faith and experience.

Burns is making runs at the top of the order in Shield cricket.

Its worth mentioning that Maxy is making runs at 3 for Victoria too. Not that Id ever call him a 3 in Test cricket. Doesn't have the temperament for it.

IMO ^^^ is the missing link in our Test side ATM. Its probably the biggest call we need to make too.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 11:21 am
Matt, on those players names you raised.

Paine:
Despite the highly questionable circumstances of his selection he was always going to be an upgrade on Wade (which isn't hard). His hands are are good and anybody in the game and can be relied on to grab anything that comes to him (drop catch in Bris and aberration). The main issue with his keeping is the ones that don't come to him. His footwork is well below par. He will miss chances by not even getting a glove to them. Ultimately though you have to be happy with him as a reliable keeper until somebody better comes along. For his batting the jury is still out for mine. Most of the time he's come in against tired attacks with his team on top. I'll wait and see how he performs when he's needed to help resurrect an innings or two.

Marsh Brothers:
Shaun has always been a solid contributor at test level. Bit of a sloppy starter but when he's set he has proven he can make big scores. Injuries are what's affected his consistency. Has come through this series well and barring more mishaps should be there for a while longer.

Mitch has really turned the corner with a couple of big scores. Like Paine though he's been the beneficiary of a team dominating a substandard bowling attack. What's certain is he's locked down the no6 spot at least for the immediate term. South African tour will tell us more about where he's at long term as a batsman. As a bowler he hasn't inspired confidence. Medium pace half volleys and long hops won't cut it. Needs to either find a bit more pace or the right areas to bowl consistently before he will trouble too many batsmen. Right now we can carry him while he works on that. Needs to improve this area.

Khawaja:
Looks lazy when he gets out. Makes batting look easy when he doesn't. He's had a habit of being one of those batsmen who makes runs when others don't. Based on that he's an invaluable contributor. His recent score has put to bed any doubts about him holding the no3 spot for now. Was our best batsman against South Africa last time they were here so hopefully continues that form over there.

Opener:
Put simply Bancroft has not looked up to test level. Was a questionable inclusion at the start of the series and didn't perform. The is no justification in sending him to South Africa. As for his replacement, form in the Shield when it resumes in Feb will make the picture clearer. Renshaw should have first dibs as he was unlucky to get dropped. Scored a 50no in his last Shield game and just scored a century at club level so has had some decent time at the crease recently. Other options as you mentioned are Joe Burns if he continues current form. Also have the option of Smarsh or Khawaja. Prefer the former as Uzi gives us stability at no3. If its SMarsh then that opens the door for guys like Handscombe or Maxwell to return.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 1:00 pm
I think that's probably a fair call on Paine. It will be interesting to see how Carey (SA) and Pierson (QLD) continue to develop in the next couple of years. Hopefully Whiteman (WA) can get fit and return to some form too. Alternatively, Handscomb or Bancroft need to work harder on their keeping if they want to hold down a spot/ get back in.

Mitch's bowling will improve with time. He did just return from shoulder surgery after all. He definitely bowled better in his 1st stint at this level.

I like Uzi, so hope he does manage to hold his spot.

As for open/ extra bat. Its a really tough call. Bancrofts Shield form was at least good enough to jump back ahead of Renshaw (who jumped in front of him previously). As much as dropping Renshaw seemed harsh, at least Bancroft was piling up big scores. He earnt it. BUT, as you said, he looks unsettled and possibly not good enough at this level (at least not yet). I wasn't a huge fan of Burns, and he didn't exactly have a great 1st run at it, but the same could be said of Uzi. When he came back the 2nd time he was better, perhaps Burns will too.

As much as Id like to more SMarsh to the top of the order, that destabilises the middle order. If I did that, it would be to accommodate the 4th quick. Otherwise we need to find another opener.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 2:04 pm
I can understand selectors using Shield form as a reason for dropping Renshaw and picking Bancroft. Problem is it was a reason of convenience as they totally ignored Shield form when selecting Paine who wan't even keeping for his state and hadn't scored any significant runs for years. Reality is they were looking for an excuse to pick Bancroft and that one presented itself.

Simple fact is Bancroft has failed to out perform the guy he replaced and shouldn't really be considered for the SA tour. Either recall Renshaw or go in a different direction.
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Jason Croker
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 5:24 pm
Agree NR.

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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 7:07 pm
Shaun Marsh is nothing like Mark Waugh. Junior used to peel off the runs when we needed them most, in both formats. Marsh isn’t renowned for that at all. Will nitpick that 100/100 times.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 7:12 pm
All the pundits have been banging oh on about the differences between the 2 teams. 100% the biggest man for man difference which really went a long way to deciding the series is Lyon v Moeen. One is world class, one is a mediocre batsman who bowls a bit.

If you simply swap those 2 players there is no way it stays 4-0. Smith v Root was an absolute landslide match up 2 but nothing compared to the 2 spinners.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 7:29 pm
Northern Raider wrote:I can understand selectors using Shield form as a reason for dropping Renshaw and picking Bancroft. Problem is it was a reason of convenience as they totally ignored Shield form when selecting Paine who wan't even keeping for his state and hadn't scored any significant runs for years. Reality is they were looking for an excuse to pick Bancroft and that one presented itself.

Simple fact is Bancroft has failed to out perform the guy he replaced and shouldn't really be considered for the SA tour. Either recall Renshaw or go in a different direction.


100%
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 7:32 pm
julian87 wrote:Shaun Marsh is nothing like Mark Waugh. Junior used to peel off the runs when we needed them most, in both formats. Marsh isn’t renowned for that at all. Will nitpick that 100/100 times.


Mark scored them when he needed to avoid being dropped.

He should have avged more than 42. Its 3 to 5 short IMO.
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PostPosted: January 9, 2018, 7:34 pm
julian87 wrote:All the pundits have been banging oh on about the differences between the 2 teams. 100% the biggest man for man difference which really went a long way to deciding the series is Lyon v Moeen. One is world class, one is a mediocre batsman who bowls a bit.

If you simply swap those 2 players there is no way it stays 4-0. Smith v Root was an absolute landslide match up 2 but nothing compared to the 2 spinners.


Yep.

I think it was the bowling attacks. Our 4 were better than their 4 or 5 in all instances
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PostPosted: January 10, 2018, 7:35 am
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... ome-summer

The Sth African coach is thinking of going with 4 quicks. Though he still like Mahraj
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PostPosted: January 10, 2018, 9:07 am
Matt wrote:
julian87 wrote:All the pundits have been banging oh on about the differences between the 2 teams. 100% the biggest man for man difference which really went a long way to deciding the series is Lyon v Moeen. One is world class, one is a mediocre batsman who bowls a bit.

If you simply swap those 2 players there is no way it stays 4-0. Smith v Root was an absolute landslide match up 2 but nothing compared to the 2 spinners.


Yep.

I think it was the bowling attacks. Our 4 were better than their 4 or 5 in all instances

Yeah, you could swap any of our bowlers for one of theirs and the series could have been very different. Julian is right though, the biggest gulf between them was the spinners. Lyon a constant threat, Moeen chucking pies. If the poms had somebody like Lyon keeping the pressure on and constantly testing the batsman's concentration then guys like Anderson and Broad would have enjoyed more success.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: January 10, 2018, 10:17 am
Northern Raider wrote:
Matt wrote:
julian87 wrote:All the pundits have been banging oh on about the differences between the 2 teams. 100% the biggest man for man difference which really went a long way to deciding the series is Lyon v Moeen. One is world class, one is a mediocre batsman who bowls a bit.

If you simply swap those 2 players there is no way it stays 4-0. Smith v Root was an absolute landslide match up 2 but nothing compared to the 2 spinners.


Yep.

I think it was the bowling attacks. Our 4 were better than their 4 or 5 in all instances

Yeah, you could swap any of our bowlers for one of theirs and the series could have been very different. Julian is right though, the biggest gulf between them was the spinners. Lyon a constant threat, Moeen chucking pies. If the poms had somebody like Lyon keeping the pressure on and constantly testing the batsman's concentration then guys like Anderson and Broad would have enjoyed more success.


GOAT definitely a massive difference to Ali. I know Crane's debut figures aren't that great, but he bowled better than his figures suggest. Even playing him for 5 Tests would have made a difference, probably not going to sway the series, but would improve their chances. He was at least threatening at times in Sydney.
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PostPosted: January 10, 2018, 10:19 am
It'll be interesting to see how Nathan Lyon goes in Sth Africa... They have better batsmen and many more right-handed batsmen.
2018: 1. Wighton 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4. Leiluia 5. Rapana 6. Austin 7. Sezer 8. Paulo 9. Garvey 10. Boyd 11. Papalii 12. Tapine 13. Whitehead ----
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PostPosted: January 10, 2018, 4:03 pm
We'll beat RSA
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PostPosted: January 10, 2018, 6:49 pm
Makaveli wrote:We'll beat RSA


Im not as confident as you
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 8:29 am
SA will be a massive challenge. Swinging ball has brought our batsmen undone on many occasions. Mostly through lack of exposure to it. They also have a very solid batting line up.

Let's not get too carried away with a dominant home series win against a sub-standard England
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 8:52 am
Is it a 3 year series??


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2018: 1. Wighton 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4. Leiluia 5. Rapana 6. Austin 7. Sezer 8. Paulo 9. Garvey 10. Boyd 11. Papalii 12. Tapine 13. Whitehead ----
14. Williams 15. Soliola 16. Knight 17. Gubb

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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 9:53 am
Dusty wrote:Is it a 3 year series??


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Yes Dusty, it's a 3 year series...
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 11:13 am
4 tests
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 12:59 pm
-PJ- wrote:
Dusty wrote:Is it a 3 year series??


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Yes Dusty, it's a 3 year series...


Haha oops!


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2018: 1. Wighton 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4. Leiluia 5. Rapana 6. Austin 7. Sezer 8. Paulo 9. Garvey 10. Boyd 11. Papalii 12. Tapine 13. Whitehead ----
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 7:35 pm
Expect lower scoring tests in South Africa. Steyn may miss the first test or two but Morkel and Rabada will pose more than enough trouble. Batsmen will be far more thoroughly tested than on our pancake wickets.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 7:44 pm
Rabada Morkel and Philander will destroy us.

I don't see it being pretty viewing on seeming decks
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 7:45 pm
Yeah, the Indians didn't do it easy in the first test. The good news is our bowlers will be pretty lethal over there as well.
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 9:14 pm
Ball just called six landing on the rope. Could have sworn that was a four?
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 9:44 pm
Nope always been 6, same as if it hit the fence on the full in the old days
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 9:54 pm
If Thunder ever bowl Mclenaghan for the last over again they need their brains scanned. He has shown every game he’s not bowling with the control necessary to do it.
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PostPosted: January 12, 2018, 11:00 am
Khawaja converted from tests to T20 great, he is seeing the ball really well.
How great has D'arcy Short been, averaging 80+ with a strike rate of 160!
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PostPosted: January 13, 2018, 9:02 pm
gangrenous wrote:If Thunder ever bowl Mclenaghan for the last over again they need their brains scanned. He has shown every game he’s not bowling with the control necessary to do it.

He’s bowling better tonight. Getting rid of the beard helped. Looks more like a cricketer and less like he should be pouring macchiatos.
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PostPosted: January 13, 2018, 9:05 pm
He's still a pie slinger..

Pretty **** for a bloke that quit NZ cricket to be a T20 gun for hire
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