Only one try between finals and now

 
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: August 19, 2015, 10:46 pm
The Raiders only need to improve their defence by one unconverted try per match to be top four material (on a purely stats way of looking at it). Considering our defence has been pretty terrible that really isn't too much to ask for next year!

* = a change in the win/lose status, I also included the points differential (overall)

Win +8
Lose 0
*Win +2 Dragons
Lose -22
Win -5
*Draw -5 Storm
Win +7
Win +19
Win +63
Lose +53
Lose +50
Lose +42
Win +68
BYE
*Win +71 Cowboys
Lose +53
BYE
Win +71
*Win +74 Sharks
Win +88
Lose +84
*Win +86 Tigers
*Win +88 Sea Eagles
Lose +76
Win +96
Win +104

35 Points takes us to 4th:

Modified Ladder Top 10:

1 - Roosters 40
2 - Broncos 38
3 - Cowboys 36
4 - Raiders 35
5 - Storm 31
6 - Sharks 30
7 - Bulldogs 30
8 - Rabbitohs 30
9 - Dragons 26
10 - Sea Eagles 24

Our attack should actually improve in theory as well but I didn't even factor that in as it as I can't see us improving each and every game next year by scoring an extra try as well as preventing one. Hopefully our improvement in defence and attack should equal at least a four point improvement overall per game.

Overall it's insane to think we were four points per game away from being not only finals material, but top four :(
Last edited by Ultima on September 6, 2015, 7:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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David Furner
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PostPosted: August 19, 2015, 11:03 pm
So close yet so far away....This has been up there with the most frustrating seasons in our history. If we could only defend we could beat anyone
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 12:25 am
Ultima I'm confused, this is a positive thread yeah??
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 3:29 am
I guess so? It's a bit of both really... Positive that we don't really need to improve much, negative in the fact of what could have been and isn't (I'll throw in due to Ricky Stuart for good measure).
Get Stuart to realise he is holding the club back and step down to player manager!
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 6:04 am
This season will be a "what could have been" for me.
I expected us to sit where we are now roughly, but not to have come away with it genuinely believing we not only should have made the finals, but challenged for the top 4.
Thankfully I think the competition will be pretty similar next year with a lot of teams being overhauled in important areas.
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 6:32 am
i'll probably get ridiculed for this but our defense has improved quite a bit under stuart/pay imo, its only really our edge defense close to the line that is still appalling, I think we defend better through the middle and have a better rushing defense when we have the opposition pinned on there own line
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 6:34 am
We will make top 6 next year boys and girls. Have a brain fart in the team selection, trying to be tricky STICKY in our first finals game and be reamed well and truly and be left wondering how.......
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 7:21 am
kiwi raider wrote:i'll probably get ridiculed for this but our defense has improved quite a bit under stuart/pay imo, its only really our edge defense close to the line that is still appalling, I think we defend better through the middle and have a better rushing defense when we have the opposition pinned on there own line


You aren't wrong when you say it's improved, but quite a bit? Nope, not buy that. We were the 2nd worst defensive team in the comp last year, we are currently sitting 3rd worst this year. I mean we've been a horrible defensive team for the most part of the last 10-15 years, at this point it's par for the course for us to be a bottom 8 defenisve team... but i think it's fair to say there is a limit at which you can claim to be an improved defensive team when you are still one of the 3 worst teams in the comp.

We have improved but it's marginal at best, and one can probably attribute that kind marginal improvement to simply having a more capable squad. The way in which we defend under Stuart is absolutely abominable
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR....
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 7:31 am
In terms of 'tries against' we were the worst defensive side in 2014 - 113 tries. That was under Sticky and Pay. There was an obvious problem with some players in the team and many have been moved on. Eg, Reece Robinson, Campo, Tilse - lateral movement close to our try line. Better quality players have come into the side - eg, Sia, Sisa, Boyd. Some have improved the position they are now playing Eg Jack. But we are still not a Top 8 defensive side. Far from it. Until we can compete when we don't have the ball, we will be 'could have beens'.
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Jason Croker
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 8:08 am
kiwi raider wrote:i'll probably get ridiculed for this but our defense has improved quite a bit under stuart/pay imo, its only really our edge defense close to the line that is still appalling, I think we defend better through the middle and have a better rushing defense when we have the opposition pinned on there own line


Some games our middle defense has been great and then the next week we will come out and the opposition will steamroll us up the middle. This team is capable of great defense at times but consistency is a major problem.
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 8:30 am
Pigman wrote:
kiwi raider wrote:i'll probably get ridiculed for this but our defense has improved quite a bit under stuart/pay imo, its only really our edge defense close to the line that is still appalling, I think we defend better through the middle and have a better rushing defense when we have the opposition pinned on there own line


You aren't wrong when you say it's improved, but quite a bit? Nope, not buy that. We were the 2nd worst defensive team in the comp last year, we are currently sitting 3rd worst this year. I mean we've been a horrible defensive team for the most part of the last 10-15 years, at this point it's par for the course for us to be a bottom 8 defenisve team... but i think it's fair to say there is a limit at which you can claim to be an improved defensive team when you are still one of the 3 worst teams in the comp.

We have improved but it's marginal at best, and one can probably attribute that kind marginal improvement to simply having a more capable squad. The way in which we defend under Stuart is absolutely abominable

Oh yea overall the improvement is marginal at best, but certain aspects have improved quite a bit since pay/stuart have taken over IMO though they are offset by the fact our edge defense has probably regressed since pay/stuart took over
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Bradley Clyde
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 9:15 am
I thought this thread was going to be a reference to the Stewart NO TRY.

If we win our remainding 3 games a miss out due to that try it would kinda suck.
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Jason Croker
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 11:08 am
Ultima wrote:I guess so? It's a bit of both really... Positive that we don't really need to improve much, negative in the fact of what could have been and isn't (I'll throw in due to Ricky Stuart for good measure).

Thank god. Thought for a second there someone had hacked Ultima's account.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 11:14 am
zim wrote:
Ultima wrote:I guess so? It's a bit of both really... Positive that we don't really need to improve much, negative in the fact of what could have been and isn't (I'll throw in due to Ricky Stuart for good measure).

Thank god. Thought for a second there someone had hacked Ultima's account.

Phew! I was also worried.
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 1:43 pm
It's also been brought to my attention that if we had 4 less points on us in the Bulldogs game we would have won that too (we wouldn't have gone for the short kick off in the dying seconds which lead to a try for them). So that would put us in outright 3rd....
Get Stuart to realise he is holding the club back and step down to player manager!
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 6:28 pm
Ultima wrote:It's also been brought to my attention that if we had 4 less points on us in the Bulldogs game we would have won that too (we wouldn't have gone for the short kick off in the dying seconds which lead to a try for them). So that would put us in outright 3rd....

Like the try off the knock on?
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Sam Backo
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 6:33 pm
EDIT
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Gary Belcher
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 8:38 pm
I like your thread Ultima. If I can just again emphasize how important an improved defence would be, I'll compare us with Nth Qld.

Raider (84) have scored 2 more tries then them and NQ (71) have had 14 fewer tries scored against them.

After 23 rounds (21 playing rounds) we are on 20 competition points and have no chance of making the finals. They are cruising in the Top 4 on 34 competition points. They have the best attacking player in the world in their side, but we have outscored them. They are not a 'gun' defensive side, having had 22 more tries scored against them, to date, than the Roosters. But it doesn't matter to them because they will be in the big end of season matches and we will watch on. It is the regular 'gifting' of tries to the opposition which really rankles. They are deja vu tries in that we see them nearly every week. Players, tactics, structures - we need change for next year or we risk 'watching on' again.
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David Grant
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 10:40 pm
Really interesting insight.

I just cannot help but feel that our defence is really really poor. The ease at which opposition score against us is just a joke. Take for example the first try Manly scored on us on the weekend. Compare that to what we needed to do to put points against them.

I am pleased with the progress of the team so far under stuart. I do expect that next season our D is improved. Its time we know how to defend like a top 4 side now if we are to be a serious team in tbe comp.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 11:03 pm
In reply to "we are no chance of making the eight", we are a mathematical one. If two of the three following happen:

1 - the Dragons lose their next two (having already played and won this week)
2 - the Bulldogs lose their next three
3 - the Sea Eagles lose their next three

AND we win our next three, we make the eight... That is basically nothing but a mathematical one though, I can't see two of the three needed occurring, or us winning three in a row to end the season even :S

In other news this is far too positive, it's all Stuarts fault :P
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PostPosted: August 20, 2015, 11:46 pm
Ultima I'm starting to think you are a nice guy deep down

And it's only getting your hopes up that turns you mean, so now the pressure is off you're more relaxed
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Brett Mullins
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PostPosted: August 21, 2015, 12:02 pm
Just goes to show we're not far off the pace. Yeah our d needs massive improvement but what we really lack is that clutch player to get us over the line. Here's hoping sezer is that guy
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Sam Backo
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PostPosted: August 21, 2015, 12:56 pm
Once again I ask what is so insightful about a guy that posts a long winded post essentially declaring if we were better we'd be higher up the ladder.

EDIT
Last edited by T_R on August 21, 2015, 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Play nicely, please.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: September 6, 2015, 7:25 pm
I updated the stuff on the first page to show how it would have ended up, here is a copy:

Modified Ladder Top 10:

1 - Roosters 40
2 - Broncos 38
3 - Cowboys 36
4 - Raiders 35
5 - Storm 31
6 - Sharks 30
7 - Bulldogs 30
8 - Rabbitohs 30
9 - Dragons 26
10 - Sea Eagles 24

Again this doesn't take into consideration the Bulldogs game which would have again put us in 3rd.... One unconverted try the difference :S We really do need to defend better but on the same note I can see our attack improving a lot next year so we could totally get the 4 points from there...
Get Stuart to realise he is holding the club back and step down to player manager!
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 6, 2015, 9:28 pm
Well that's sold it did me. The coach should definitely be sacked.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 2:38 pm
No, he should be sacked for other reasons, one of which being the continuation of our terrible defence with no changes to try to address the matter, our record at home with no efforts to address the matter, see the Stuart thread for other reasons...

Again, I can discuss multiply aspects of our team and be positive on some while still negative on others. I also firmly believe that if Stuart was our player manager and recruit manager and we had a coach of the likes of Bennett, etc we would be in the finals this year.
Get Stuart to realise he is holding the club back and step down to player manager!
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 2:43 pm
If we had of scored another 37 points this season then Man would have landed on Mars in April 2016.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 2:45 pm
Thanks for coming Roger... Always a deep and meaningful input to the conversation you have there...

This is why people don't bother posting anything positive here, half the forum is full of **** who spend their off time drinking and cutting themselves...
Get Stuart to realise he is holding the club back and step down to player manager!
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 2:48 pm
Ultima, you yourself hardly EVER post anything positive here!! What in the hell are you rambling about??
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 2:49 pm
Not sure if youve been dubbyd here nick. I will asses further and let you know
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 2:51 pm
Nah, that's not a dubby, simo.
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 3:11 pm
Ultima wrote:Thanks for coming Roger... Always a deep and meaningful input to the conversation you have there...

This is why people don't bother posting anything positive here, half the forum is full of **** who spend their off time drinking and cutting themselves...


It's impossible to say improving our defence by one try (which is a pretty massive improvement in of itself) would greatly change our results. The entire flow of our games would change.
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Brett Mullins
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 3:13 pm
Ultima wrote:No, he should be sacked for other reasons, one of which being the continuation of our terrible defence with no changes to try to address the matter, our record at home with no efforts to address the matter, see the Stuart thread for other reasons...

Again, I can discuss multiply aspects of our team and be positive on some while still negative on others. I also firmly believe that if Stuart was our player manager and recruit manager and we had a coach of the likes of Bennett, etc we would be in the finals this year.

Almost everyone predicted we would finish exactly where we have. Expectations only got upgraded after seeing surprising improvements from individuals, which falls somewhere under the banner of coaching...

We bombed out this year due to immaturity in the halves.

Defence, yeah, but we constantly gave up 60% possession to the other team. It's much easier to defend well when you don't have to do much of it, or your always making them come off their own line.
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Ricky Stuart
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 4:11 pm
finished 10th but had the 7th best points diffrerential. Missed it by that much this year.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 7, 2015, 4:17 pm
As far as I'm concerned, our season is a pass mark. We certainly haven't underachieved, but we haven't overachieved either. It's a flat C. 5/10.
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