Five into four - our edges 2016

 
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 12:54 pm
With Wighton at FB

We have five (potentially 6) players fighting out for four edge positions.

Rapana
E. Lee
Croker
Leilua
Waqa
B. Lee (the potential)

We can safely assume that croker position isn't going to come into question (whether rightly or wrongly), leaving 3 spots for 5.

I liked the combo of rapana and eddy lee, for our last minute try, with rapana setting up his outside man perfectly and eddy using his big upper body to kindly excuse RR out of the way.

For me leaving one real edge spot left.
I would probably give it to Waqa but considering leilua is resigned I assume RS wants to give him more opportunities. The other big question mark is brenko, if he can work out what he is doing in defence he could be very good.

The other question mark is whether waqa stays in aus? or whether RS is determined to play leilua at centre might mean my main man raps misses out?

Oddly enough, I feel pretty good about our backline, provided whoever we go with works on their defensive combination over the offseason, we could be really good on the edges and find that our middle ends up being our weakness.
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David Furner
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:15 pm
Likely:
2. E Lee
3. Croker
4. Beej
5. Waqa

Sticky bought Leilua to play centre so he is going to get first crack at it next year. Waqa will probably get an automatic pick because of his experience so it'd be between E. Lee and Rapana for the last wing spot, which probably goes to Lee because he's been playing with Croker most of the year. I'd personally pick Rapana over Lee.

I'd start the year with:
1. Wighton
2. Rapana
3. Croker
4. Beej
5. Waqa
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:21 pm
Wighton and Croker are the only locks imo

Happy to leave both wings up to trial form of Waqa, Edrick and Rapana to sort out amongst themselves, with hope that Edrick and Sisa win those jobs.
And the other centre spot, id let Brenko and Beej battle it out, hoping that Brenko wins.

But injuries aside, id be surprised if it doesnt run out this way in round 1:
1.Wighton 2. Rapana 3. Croker 4. Beej 5. Edrick
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:22 pm
We have 3 threads all talking about similar things ATM, but just on different aspects.

For me its about looking at the positions and who fits them best.

Croker will be 1 of our centres, that's a no brainer.

The other centre is either BJ, Brenko or Waqa.
The question is, who is the best fit & why. I rule Waqa out straight away because he is a winger. He did an admirable job this yr, but he isn't a wk in wk out centre. His defence, like most of our team, was questionable. His impact on the game from centre wasn't as good as the wing or FB. Of the other 2, I think you are looking at the same player, just a few years apart. Both have maturity and application issues. Both have defensive issues too. Both are good ball runners though. It will come down to which one trains the best in the off season, but Id be looking at Brenko, as he still has more opportunity to reach his potential, BJ is starting to let his pass him by.

Which leaves Rapana, Eddy and Waqa for the 2 wing spots.
They are all good for different reasons, they all have strengths and weaknesses, and its hard to split them. Waqa partnered Croker to start the yr, and they did well, BUT, Eddy and Croker have had a couple of disjointed seasons together now and seem to have a pretty good understanding. For me, that gives Eddy and edge for the left wing spot. Meaning the other 2 fighting for 1 spot. As mush as I like watching Rapana charge back on kick return, his defensive faults and his tendency to get the 'droppsies', means Waqa is the safer choice. I also believe that Waqa 'strengthens' the centre inside him due to his experience, professionalism on field and calmness. Which would also be handy if Brenko is the man inside him.

So,
1. Jack
2. Eddy
3. Toots
4. Brenko
5. Waqa

Meaning, for me, Rapana and BJ are the odd ones out. I will say, I don't think this is what Ricky is thinking though.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:24 pm
Pigman wrote:Wighton and Croker are the only locks imo

Happy to leave both wings up to trial form of Waqa, Edrick and Rapana to sort out amongst themselves, with hope that Edrick and Sisa win those jobs.
And the other centre spot, id let Brenko and Beej battle it out, hoping that Brenko wins.

But injuries aside, id be surprised if it doesnt run out this way in round 1:
1.Wighton 2. Rapana 3. Croker 4. Beej 5. Edrick


I agree with Piggy, until the last line. Do you think Waqa misses out???
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:30 pm
He wouldnt if it were me, id have him over DF..
but yes i do, Stuart "rested" him for a few weeks not long ago and was happy enough to roll with Rapana and Lee. But i think Lee is probably a lock for Stuart, so trial form might dictate Waqa/Rapana for stuart
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:33 pm
Pigman wrote:He wouldnt if it were me, id have him over DF..
but yes i do, Stuart "rested" him for a few weeks not long ago and was happy enough to roll with Rapana and Lee. But i think Lee is probably a lock for Stuart, so trial form might dictate Waqa/Rapana for stuart


I thought the "resting" was more to do with his off field stuff than the on field stuff. You might be right though.
I still think he had a knee issue too, which seemed to right itself after a couple of weeks rest.
It makes him an expensive Mounties player then too.
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Ricky Stuart
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:49 pm
yeh, 650k, Waqa is playing first grade.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:51 pm
Shadow Boxer wrote:yeh, 650k, Waqa is playing first grade.


If he was on that surely they would've been happy to release him.
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Ricky Stuart
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 1:54 pm
That was the figure Mattystorm was quoting. He knows stuff.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:18 pm
All of those players listed are first graders and we should be prepared to use them or lose them. Brenko is only exception, having already knocked back his requests to go to the Dogs. And still qualifying for the 20s next season, I believe.

1. Wighton
2. Lee
3. Croker
4. BJ
5. Rapana

Brenko Lee as the first choice backup and earmarked for a future centre spot.

Waqa - if he's on $650k or anything near that, cyabye, i'd be releasing him.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:18 pm
Shadow Boxer wrote:That was the figure Mattystorm was quoting. He knows stuff.

Actually, that was the amount he spent on the pokies last financial year.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:19 pm
I am hearing Ricky sees one of Rapana/Leilua/B. Lee as a bench player in place of Baptiste & his preferred back 5 is;

Wighton
E. Lee
Croker
Waqa
Rapana

Leilua as bench utility. But also won't be surprised if Waqa is allowed to leave.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:22 pm
I guess Hawkins is our emergency. That's an upgrade from Billy T imo. I believe he is in the top 25 next year as well?
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:23 pm
We a chance at bringing allwood back?
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:37 pm
I don't get the repeated mentions of Rapana having bad defence. He showed against Radradra that he is great as long as there isn't some crazy 2 on 4 overlap.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:41 pm
zim wrote:I don't get the repeated mentions of Rapana having bad defence. He showed against Radradra that he is great as long as there isn't some crazy 2 on 4 overlap.


His missed tackle count, and the terrible right edge stats is where it stems from.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:48 pm
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:I don't get the repeated mentions of Rapana having bad defence. He showed against Radradra that he is great as long as there isn't some crazy 2 on 4 overlap.


His missed tackle count, and the terrible right edge stats is where it stems from.


Got some stats handy for us? Wouldn't mind seeing the averages for all the players mentioned. I had a search but found nothing that wouldn't have taken a week to piece together.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 2:54 pm
I'd be surprised if the right edge was that bad compared to the left.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:01 pm
zim wrote:
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:I don't get the repeated mentions of Rapana having bad defence. He showed against Radradra that he is great as long as there isn't some crazy 2 on 4 overlap.


His missed tackle count, and the terrible right edge stats is where it stems from.


Got some stats handy for us? Wouldn't mind seeing the averages for all the players mentioned. I had a search but found nothing that wouldn't have taken a week to piece together.


Missed tackle avg per game for 2015.
Waqa - 1.57
Croker - 1.92
Eddy - 1.52
Rapana - 2.26
BJ - 2 as a Raider & 1.92 as a Knight - 1.95 combined in 2015
Brenko - 3 (got 3s in both NRL games this yr). Not sure about u20s.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:02 pm
Are you trolling me matt?
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:04 pm
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:I don't get the repeated mentions of Rapana having bad defence. He showed against Radradra that he is great as long as there isn't some crazy 2 on 4 overlap.


His missed tackle count, and the terrible right edge stats is where it stems from.


Got some stats handy for us? Wouldn't mind seeing the averages for all the players mentioned. I had a search but found nothing that wouldn't have taken a week to piece together.


Missed tackle avg per game for 2015.
Waqa - 1.57
Croker - 1.92
Eddy - 1.52
Rapana - 2.26
BJ - 2 as a Raider & 1.92 as a Knight - 1.95 combined in 2015
Brenko - 3 (got 3s in both NRL games this yr). Not sure about u20s.


Do you have the right and left edge stat for trys?
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:07 pm
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:I don't get the repeated mentions of Rapana having bad defence. He showed against Radradra that he is great as long as there isn't some crazy 2 on 4 overlap.


His missed tackle count, and the terrible right edge stats is where it stems from.


Got some stats handy for us? Wouldn't mind seeing the averages for all the players mentioned. I had a search but found nothing that wouldn't have taken a week to piece together.


Missed tackle avg per game for 2015.
Waqa - 1.57
Croker - 1.92
Eddy - 1.52
Rapana - 2.26
BJ - 2 as a Raider & 1.92 as a Knight - 1.95 combined in 2015
Brenko - 3 (got 3s in both NRL games this yr). Not sure about u20s.


That is a lot higher than I was expecting especially given how hard his first contact can be. I'll have to watch him more closely next year.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:10 pm
edwahu wrote:I'd be surprised if the right edge was that bad compared to the left.


You can see the outside backs above, Eddy & Sisa basically cancel each other out (remember that both started on opposite sides to start the yr then these 2 switched. Its also worth noting that Sisa has played wing, centre & FB, so his numbers are a little all over the place), meaning the difference is Croker vs the combo of Rapana, BJ & Brenko.

Add in the halves Sammy vs Austin = 2.06 vs 2.61. (Cornish is 3.29, he had 6 misses on the weekend, at right half, the rest of his games were on the left. So, avg of 6 on the right & 2.8333 on the left). Our left got better when Sammy came in.

There probably isn't a massive difference between the right & left, but every week the commentators would harp on about or right edge being worse. Now, they have better stats than we have. They get breakdowns of left vs middle vs right. They also get where on the field they are coming from - inside the 10 or 20, or longer range tries. So, harder for me to work out.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:12 pm
zim wrote:
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:I don't get the repeated mentions of Rapana having bad defence. He showed against Radradra that he is great as long as there isn't some crazy 2 on 4 overlap.


His missed tackle count, and the terrible right edge stats is where it stems from.


Got some stats handy for us? Wouldn't mind seeing the averages for all the players mentioned. I had a search but found nothing that wouldn't have taken a week to piece together.


Missed tackle avg per game for 2015.
Waqa - 1.57
Croker - 1.92
Eddy - 1.52
Rapana - 2.26
BJ - 2 as a Raider & 1.92 as a Knight - 1.95 combined in 2015
Brenko - 3 (got 3s in both NRL games this yr). Not sure about u20s.


That is a lot higher than I was expecting especially given how hard his first contact can be. I'll have to watch him more closely next year.


Like many outside backs, front on, they are perfectly fine, its when they are sliding, being run around and/ or having to make decisions that they come unstuck.
Also, just coz he makes good contact, doesn't mean he brings them down.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:12 pm
papabear wrote:Are you trolling me matt?


Nope. Stating facts
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:13 pm
edwahu wrote:
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:
Matt wrote:
zim wrote:I don't get the repeated mentions of Rapana having bad defence. He showed against Radradra that he is great as long as there isn't some crazy 2 on 4 overlap.


His missed tackle count, and the terrible right edge stats is where it stems from.


Got some stats handy for us? Wouldn't mind seeing the averages for all the players mentioned. I had a search but found nothing that wouldn't have taken a week to piece together.


Missed tackle avg per game for 2015.
Waqa - 1.57
Croker - 1.92
Eddy - 1.52
Rapana - 2.26
BJ - 2 as a Raider & 1.92 as a Knight - 1.95 combined in 2015
Brenko - 3 (got 3s in both NRL games this yr). Not sure about u20s.


Do you have the right and left edge stat for trys?


Nope. The NRL does, but we don't. Refer to one of my other posts above.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:27 pm
For mine, based on the last half of the season...
Croker > Rapana = E. Lee > Waqa > Leillua = B. Lee

I'm still not sold on Leilua.. B. Lee is improving.. Waqa sometimes seems distracted or pushing the offload when not needed, but then does something brilliant like setting E. Lee up for that kick return break. Edrick's been on the improve as well, his contributions especially when we're trying to get out of our own end has been great. Rapana is always trying and also does a lot to get us out of our own end. And Toots.. well he's our captain, bleeds green, top point scorer
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:30 pm
Matt wrote:Also, just coz he makes good contact, doesn't mean he brings them down.

Certainly helps more than plodding over and hugging them, so you'd assume someone making big contact consistently is going to have a better tackle rate.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:32 pm
We should all chip in and get a prozone or NRL Stats subscription for Matt. I'd chuck in.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:51 pm
Matt wrote:
papabear wrote:Are you trolling me matt?


Nope. Stating facts

but you are only stating part of the "facts", without the full picture, all it does is show who is better at the mistackle stat. Not who is a better defender.

Its like deciding who is the best attacking player from the most tackles broken stat.

Now I am sure josh dugan beats out JT on that stat, but JT is by far a better attacking player.

You have to stop tries, you do that from yes making tackles, but also making strong decisions, working as a unit, making good first contact with your tackles, wrapping up the footy to sotp offloads, so on and so forth.

IMO either find more comprehensive stats to support your argument that rapana is the **** edge defender we have, or stop inferring it. Because tbh from watching the games he is probably our best (or maybe waqa).
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 3:54 pm
A missed tackle is a missed tackle..

I dunno what's so difficult to comprehend about that
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 4:03 pm
Yes a mistackle is a mistackle.

What is worse then a mistackle is a bad read.
Even worse then a bad read is not having your **** in the right spot to make a bad read in the first place.
Or a tackle you make and the guy gets over the try line and scores.

It is just one indicator of defensive quality there are thousands of others. Michael Jordan probably missed more shots then most NBA players ever, yet people dont hold this one statistic against him to try and preted he is a bad basketballer, because those people are not idiots.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 4:03 pm
papabear wrote:
Matt wrote:
papabear wrote:Are you trolling me matt?


Nope. Stating facts

but you are only stating part of the "facts", without the full picture, all it does is show who is better at the mistackle stat. Not who is a better defender.

Its like deciding who is the best attacking player from the most tackles broken stat.

Now I am sure josh dugan beats out JT on that stat, but JT is by far a better attacking player.

You have to stop tries, you do that from yes making tackles, but also making strong decisions, working as a unit, making good first contact with your tackles, wrapping up the footy to sotp offloads, so on and so forth.

IMO either find more comprehensive stats to support your argument that rapana is the **** edge defender we have, or stop inferring it. Because tbh from watching the games he is probably our best (or maybe waqa).


Forget JT and Dugan, Croker is the best attacking player. He scores the most points after all.
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PostPosted: September 8, 2015, 4:12 pm
Id have Rapana every day of the week.

He's been awesome for us, big motor, does the hard stuff.

1. Wighton 3. Croker 5. Rapana.
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