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Steve Walters
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 6:06 pm
Our entire season has been about errors. Errors doing basic, simple football too. It's been painful, we're not playing risky football and we're still up there in the competition for errors made.

Last night wasn't much different. All that really changed for me is that Aiden Sezer, probably through desperation due to an overall poor game, took 2 pretty big risks with the intercept and then the 40/20. Those risks paid off.

We're at that point in the year where it's either blow the engine or limp to the finish line. I think we just absolutely have to take risks now and play fairly unstructured for the rest of the year.

Jack is in absolute no mans land at the moment. I don't understand why we have the bloke with the most tackle busts in the league parked out on the right wing. Swap them. Teams are setting up to defend Jordan, let's make it difficult for them. Let him roam around. His defending and positional play can't be worse than Jack's lately so I think it's worth it. Jack is a pretty good right winger so that's a bonus. This is the most critical move we should make.

Baptiste has to play 40 minutes. He brings energy which we don't otherwise have, and we look really lazy a lot. He chases out of dummy half and that type of thing which we just don't do well. Hodgson can play 80 or close and these two can just play as floating hooker/lock combo, I don't care. We just need both their energy and versatility and we should at least try to use Baptiste better.

If Papa is going to be out for 2 weeks I would like to see Tapine fill that left edge and try play some football rather than go another safe option. At least Tapine is more than just a metre eater 2 wide of the ruck. We need someone to play some football there.

Dave Taylor should be told that every kilo he loses between now and Round 26 is worth $2000 under the table :D .

Put all the chips in Ricky!
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 6:20 pm
^^ All of this, please

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
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Gary Coyne
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 6:33 pm
Every game is high risk now.
Nothing short of winning every game to the end, and by a comfortable margin, will get our Raiders into the finals series, and hopefully to the Grand Final...
I didn't do it. No one saw me do it. You can't prove anything.
Except we can. Except we did. And soon EVERYONE will know too.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 6:36 pm
Can't disagree with any of that.

Edit; disagree with Tapine on the edge. Has to be Soliola.

I've shaken my head at people suggesting this for yonks, but with Papalii out I reckon I'd roll the dice and shift Wighton to 13 to accommodate Rapana. All that means is Oldfield comes in rather than Sorensen or Knight.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 7:10 pm
volleyman wrote:Every game is high risk now.
Nothing short of winning every game to the end, and by a comfortable margin, will get our Raiders into the finals series, and hopefully to the Grand Final...


We can probably afford to lose one game if its not against the Panthers and we pick up our point scoring in the games we should (Knights, Rabbits, Warriors and Panthers)
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Chris O'Sullivan
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 7:28 pm
Woodgers wrote:Our entire season has been about errors. Errors doing basic, simple football too. It's been painful, we're not playing risky football and we're still up there in the competition for errors made.

Last night wasn't much different. All that really changed for me is that Aiden Sezer, probably through desperation due to an overall poor game, took 2 pretty big risks with the intercept and then the 40/20. Those risks paid off.

We're at that point in the year where it's either blow the engine or limp to the finish line. I think we just absolutely have to take risks now and play fairly unstructured for the rest of the year.

Jack is in absolute no mans land at the moment. I don't understand why we have the bloke with the most tackle busts in the league parked out on the right wing. Swap them. Teams are setting up to defend Jordan, let's make it difficult for them. Let him roam around. His defending and positional play can't be worse than Jack's lately so I think it's worth it. Jack is a pretty good right winger so that's a bonus. This is the most critical move we should make.

Baptiste has to play 40 minutes. He brings energy which we don't otherwise have, and we look really lazy a lot. He chases out of dummy half and that type of thing which we just don't do well. Hodgson can play 80 or close and these two can just play as floating hooker/lock combo, I don't care. We just need both their energy and versatility and we should at least try to use Baptiste better.

If Papa is going to be out for 2 weeks I would like to see Tapine fill that left edge and try play some football rather than go another safe option. At least Tapine is more than just a metre eater 2 wide of the ruck. We need someone to play some football there.

Dave Taylor should be told that every kilo he loses between now and Round 26 is worth $2000 under the table :D .

Put all the chips in Ricky!

This is all on our coach, Stuart is not a risk taker
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Terry Campese
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 8:46 pm
Kryptonite wrote:
Woodgers wrote:Our entire season has been about errors. Errors doing basic, simple football too. It's been painful, we're not playing risky football and we're still up there in the competition for errors made.

Last night wasn't much different. All that really changed for me is that Aiden Sezer, probably through desperation due to an overall poor game, took 2 pretty big risks with the intercept and then the 40/20. Those risks paid off.

We're at that point in the year where it's either blow the engine or limp to the finish line. I think we just absolutely have to take risks now and play fairly unstructured for the rest of the year.

Jack is in absolute no mans land at the moment. I don't understand why we have the bloke with the most tackle busts in the league parked out on the right wing. Swap them. Teams are setting up to defend Jordan, let's make it difficult for them. Let him roam around. His defending and positional play can't be worse than Jack's lately so I think it's worth it. Jack is a pretty good right winger so that's a bonus. This is the most critical move we should make.

Baptiste has to play 40 minutes. He brings energy which we don't otherwise have, and we look really lazy a lot. He chases out of dummy half and that type of thing which we just don't do well. Hodgson can play 80 or close and these two can just play as floating hooker/lock combo, I don't care. We just need both their energy and versatility and we should at least try to use Baptiste better.

If Papa is going to be out for 2 weeks I would like to see Tapine fill that left edge and try play some football rather than go another safe option. At least Tapine is more than just a metre eater 2 wide of the ruck. We need someone to play some football there.

Dave Taylor should be told that every kilo he loses between now and Round 26 is worth $2000 under the table :D .

Put all the chips in Ricky!

This is all on our coach, Stuart is not a risk taker


Fullback is one of the most important positions on the pitch... anyone that can't see that Rapana is this club's best fullback is an A-Grade muppet.

Ricky is AAA-Grade. I don't expect anything to change.
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Gary Coyne
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 10:08 pm
Green eyed Mick wrote:
volleyman wrote:Every game is high risk now.
Nothing short of winning every game to the end, and by a comfortable margin, will get our Raiders into the finals series, and hopefully to the Grand Final...


We can probably afford to lose one game if its not against the Panthers and we pick up our point scoring in the games we should (Knights, Rabbits, Warriors and Panthers)


I am not talking about the points involved, more the momentum of the squad.
Ricky says luck played a huge part in yesterday's win, if the luck doesn't show up every week by playing well, it will get away from us
I didn't do it. No one saw me do it. You can't prove anything.
Except we can. Except we did. And soon EVERYONE will know too.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: July 16, 2017, 10:33 am
Mamando wrote:
Kryptonite wrote:
Woodgers wrote:Our entire season has been about errors. Errors doing basic, simple football too. It's been painful, we're not playing risky football and we're still up there in the competition for errors made.

Last night wasn't much different. All that really changed for me is that Aiden Sezer, probably through desperation due to an overall poor game, took 2 pretty big risks with the intercept and then the 40/20. Those risks paid off.

We're at that point in the year where it's either blow the engine or limp to the finish line. I think we just absolutely have to take risks now and play fairly unstructured for the rest of the year.

Jack is in absolute no mans land at the moment. I don't understand why we have the bloke with the most tackle busts in the league parked out on the right wing. Swap them. Teams are setting up to defend Jordan, let's make it difficult for them. Let him roam around. His defending and positional play can't be worse than Jack's lately so I think it's worth it. Jack is a pretty good right winger so that's a bonus. This is the most critical move we should make.

Baptiste has to play 40 minutes. He brings energy which we don't otherwise have, and we look really lazy a lot. He chases out of dummy half and that type of thing which we just don't do well. Hodgson can play 80 or close and these two can just play as floating hooker/lock combo, I don't care. We just need both their energy and versatility and we should at least try to use Baptiste better.

If Papa is going to be out for 2 weeks I would like to see Tapine fill that left edge and try play some football rather than go another safe option. At least Tapine is more than just a metre eater 2 wide of the ruck. We need someone to play some football there.

Dave Taylor should be told that every kilo he loses between now and Round 26 is worth $2000 under the table :D .

Put all the chips in Ricky!

This is all on our coach, Stuart is not a risk taker


Fullback is one of the most important positions on the pitch... anyone that can't see that Rapana is this club's best fullback is an A-Grade muppet.

Ricky is AAA-Grade. I don't expect anything to change.

Pretty sure rapana had a go at fullback and was pretty poor.

The most important skills of a fullback is good safe hands which wighton doesnt have but rapanas probably worse.

Imo cotric is the go. Only a muppet wpuld overlook him for rapana
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Simon Woolford
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PostPosted: July 16, 2017, 11:05 am
Rapana has played 3 games for us at fb. 1 of them, v the eels up in Darwin, his 1st game for the club he was very good. He could certainly make a fist of fb if given an extended run. He's a better winger then fb though. It's a moot point anyway cos Ricky isn't moving Jack any time soon. I do agree Cotric has all the attributes of a great fullback and will eventually end up there.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: July 16, 2017, 1:23 pm
Lets move the best winger in the comp out of position. Great idea.

OR

Lets move the rookie who is in the top 5 try scorers and top 3 tackle busts, and is making a perfect case for being Rapa's 'mini me'.

Forget that Wighton is equal 2nd in our side for last pass try assists. If you look at the Fox lab stats, he is 2nd to only Sezer for involvements in a try scoring play. He made the charge before Sezers 40/20 too; proving his value as a big body ball runner. He is probably the best tackling FB in the comp too - he and Boyd saved a try the other night too.

You cant defend his errors, and the Dragons 1st forced dropout was on him. However he is still the best otion we have. If he could get those errors under control no one would question him.
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: July 16, 2017, 1:26 pm
As for going all out, im 100% on board. Its time to chance our arm, esp in the red zone. As a side, we dont offload very often, which is weird, coz we are masters of broken and 2nd phase play. Its also weird coz BJ, Rapa, Jr and Taylor love an offload.
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Ruben Wiki
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PostPosted: July 16, 2017, 2:04 pm
Sticky has rolled the dice once by changing the sides the halves play on. It may have happened before at some club under the left side/right side structure that is modern RL, but I can't remember when. That was a gutsy move by Sticky that had 'dross' written all over it until the intercept. Perhaps another couple of matches with this structure before we go making further changes. When the time comes though I hope change involves Cotric.

Interesting interview with Austen after the match in which they were talking about the length he gets on his line drop outs. He said that after training, himself, Sezer and Cotric send drop kicks to one another. The way he said it, sounded like Cotric may have a good long, accurate drop kick in his kit bag of skills as well. If that is the case and we are setting the play for a field goal, maybe the Captain could suggest the young bloke get into position to have a crack. It's not like the regular field goal (attempted) kickers are successful.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: July 16, 2017, 2:51 pm
I didn't read most of Woodgers post but I agree 100% with everything he said.

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Brett Mullins
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PostPosted: July 16, 2017, 9:28 pm
Jackie Wighton gotta go if we want to make semis.
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Steve Walters
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 11:31 am
Matt wrote:Lets move the best winger in the comp out of position. Great idea.

OR

Lets move the rookie who is in the top 5 try scorers and top 3 tackle busts, and is making a perfect case for being Rapa's 'mini me'.

Forget that Wighton is equal 2nd in our side for last pass try assists. If you look at the Fox lab stats, he is 2nd to only Sezer for involvements in a try scoring play. He made the charge before Sezers 40/20 too; proving his value as a big body ball runner. He is probably the best tackling FB in the comp too - he and Boyd saved a try the other night too.

You cant defend his errors, and the Dragons 1st forced dropout was on him. However he is still the best otion we have. If he could get those errors under control no one would question him.


But he's not getting those errors out Matt. He's shown a pattern over his career that he's either really up or really down and all the signs lately is he is lacking the confidence he requires to be anywhere near the player he can be. He's got a lot of games under his belt now and regardless of the Fox lab stats, the truth of the matter is a lot of teams are getting a lot more from fullback than we are. Considering how important that position is to every single team these days, it's a risk worth taking. In our current predicament, it's worth the shot. It's round 20 and we're 4 points outside of the top 8 looking for something outside of what we have been doing (which isn't working) to generate some spark and hope.

My belief is that a fullback is going to have a say in more results than a winger. Rapana may be the best winger in the comp but to me it's not much good having a good finisher out wide in a team that is showing all the attacking punch and versatility of a wet lettuce leaf. Teams have clearly set up to defend that right side all year so having the most dangerous ball runner floating around makes it more difficult for the opposition to isolate one of our biggest strengths. I think it would be much of a muchness with the defence, in fact if anything Rapana is far more urgent getting to contested balls than Jack is.

I've seen a lot of talk about moving Cotric to fullback but I just think it's too early in his career. He should see out the year doing exactly what he is doing unless the situation is dire. Jack is so down on form and confidence that I think Nick would probably do a better job of it right now, but not many players find their way into an NRL starting fullback position with so few games under their belt, they normally do some sort of wing apprenticeship and we might be asking too much of him too soon. Plus I think Jack would be much better on the right wing than left so that's another thing.

I look at the points left on offer this season, the way we have been playing and then the draw which contains the best and most disciplined team in the competition twice, along with the premiers away and I can't see how anyone thinks doing the same thing we've done for 20 weeks of this season so far is going to see us across the line in 2017 to even make up numbers in the finals.
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Steve Walters
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 11:39 am
Northern Raider wrote:I didn't read most of Woodgers post but I agree 100% with everything he said.

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Move in with me.
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Member No: 3010. Bay 28. Row KK. Seat 6.

Michael wrote:
If life has taught me anything, its that any combination of mohawk, moustache, mullet, beard and the general attitude of a complete pig will get you a long way in that regard.

That's the sound of the men, working on the chain gannnng! Ohhhhh agghhhh
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 11:44 am
Yeah there's no way in the world I'd move Cotric to fullback before Rapana. Seems crazy to me.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 12:42 pm
Woodgers wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:I didn't read most of Woodgers post but I agree 100% with everything he said.

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Move in with me.

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Don Furner
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 12:48 pm
Jack is one of my favourites, but he's been in terrible form lately.
He's hardly Robinson Crusoe either, but you need your fullback to be better than what he's been.

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Peter Jackson
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 1:03 pm
With the way we have been using the Fullback on the sweep play, I worry that Rapana (and Cotric) lack the passing game to do what we need them to do. I suspect Rapana will be equally rocks/diamonds with his hands at the back, too.
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Jason Croker
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 1:28 pm
dubby wrote:Jack is one of my favourites, but he's been in terrible form lately.
He's hardly Robinson Crusoe either, but you need your fullback to be better than what he's been.[/url]


Do you mean Reece Robinson?
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 2:36 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
dubby wrote:Jack is one of my favourites, but he's been in terrible form lately.
He's hardly Robinson Crusoe either, but you need your fullback to be better than what he's been.[/url]


Do you mean Reece Robinson?

No.



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Steve Walters
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 3:13 pm
TongueFTW wrote:With the way we have been using the Fullback on the sweep play, I worry that Rapana (and Cotric) lack the passing game to do what we need them to do. I suspect Rapana will be equally rocks/diamonds with his hands at the back, too.


I did actually consider this point. I'm not sure what the stats are on that play working for us this season (could be high considering the Wighton stat that Matt gave) but the eye test says to me that we're not getting a massive amount of joy there.

Maybe I'm way off with the fairies but my recollection when thinking about the games we played in the back end of 2016 such as Round 26 at Leichhardt where we piled on the points (probably about the peak in our performance) was our forwards just bashed it up the middle as hard as possible for a few and then we played a whole bunch of ad lib football. Perhaps I'm wrong and the delirium of actually enjoying games for once severely clouded by judgement, but I didn't think a lot of what was great about when this team was playing well was structured football such as heaps of block and sweep plays.

I guess this is the overall point that I was trying to make when starting this thread. If we're going to try and make anything from this steaming pile of a season, we might as well go down swinging rather than keep going down this path to nowhere. The win on the weekend masks the fact that it was another bad performance against a pretty ordinary St George side. If we turn up to play Melbourne doing the same thing we've done all season long, we're going to get mauled. We have to hit them with some element of surprise and play off the cuff as much as we can after a few solid ones up the middle because the way we've been decimated in the middle in attack and defence all season long, we're not beating the Storm that way in a month of Sundays. After a season that has aggravated me as much as this one has, the last thing I want to see is us limping to the finish line talking about how our for and against ain't all that bad! At least try get something happening.
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Michael wrote:
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That's the sound of the men, working on the chain gannnng! Ohhhhh agghhhh
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David Furner
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 3:33 pm
TongueFTW wrote:With the way we have been using the Fullback on the sweep play, I worry that Rapana (and Cotric) lack the passing game to do what we need them to do. I suspect Rapana will be equally rocks/diamonds with his hands at the back, too.

Watch Edrick Lee's try against the Eels in Rd 26 2015. We'll be right.


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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 4:52 pm
Jack wighton is a better fullback than rapana.
Fapana is the best winger in the world.
Rapana pops up when it's on in different places when he needs to, I reckon he's playing busted though last month or so.


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Jason Croker
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 5:28 pm
dubby wrote:
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
dubby wrote:Jack is one of my favourites, but he's been in terrible form lately.
He's hardly Robinson Crusoe either, but you need your fullback to be better than what he's been.[/url]


Do you mean Reece Robinson?

No.



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Ok
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Don Furner
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 6:15 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
dubby wrote:
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
dubby wrote:Jack is one of my favourites, but he's been in terrible form lately.
He's hardly Robinson Crusoe either, but you need your fullback to be better than what he's been.[/url]


Do you mean Reece Robinson?

No.



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Ok

I tried to think of a funny comeback. But I'm not funny.

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Gerry De La Cruz
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 6:58 pm
Jack is one of the worst fullbacks of the comp. End of... Anybody who can't see that is looking at the world through rose
(Maybe green?) Coloured glasses.

Too bad if he's lost confidence or sad etc... I wish my employer was as lenient. Over the BS excuses we give this guy. Its a shame but the dropped ball in the 3rd minute...happens so often now you expect it.
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Mal Meninga
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 9:43 pm
Yeah I'm off the wagon

He looked promising at the end of 16, but his positioning is terrible

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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: July 17, 2017, 10:02 pm
-TW- wrote:Yeah I'm off the wagon

He looked promising at the end of 16, but his positioning is terrible

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Good footballer, ordinary fullback. If he was suited for the role he should be improving there. Not going backwards. The experiment has failed. Time to utilise him in another position.
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Sam Backo
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Joined: March 5, 2007, 2:16 pm
PostPosted: July 18, 2017, 7:52 am
Wighton's a bit of an enigma. There's no doubt he's got some talent, but the reality is that he's now in his 6th season and we still don't really know where his best spot is or how to get consistent footy out of him. He's a long way short of the player I thought he'd be by this point in his career, and looks unlikely to hold down the fullback spot long term.

On Cotric, who on here saw him play a lot as a junior? I never saw him play until this year in FG, so would be interested to know where those who have seen him develop through the grades think is his best position? Does he have the ball playing ability to make it as a fullback in the coming years, or is centre his more natural spot?
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Peter Jackson
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Joined: January 8, 2012, 8:30 pm

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Austin, Rappa, Hodgo
PostPosted: July 18, 2017, 10:45 am
twistedbydesign wrote:Wighton's a bit of an enigma. There's no doubt he's got some talent, but the reality is that he's now in his 6th season and we still don't really know where his best spot is or how to get consistent footy out of him. He's a long way short of the player I thought he'd be by this point in his career, and looks unlikely to hold down the fullback spot long term.

On Cotric, who on here saw him play a lot as a junior? I never saw him play until this year in FG, so would be interested to know where those who have seen him develop through the grades think is his best position? Does he have the ball playing ability to make it as a fullback in the coming years, or is centre his more natural spot?


I watched Cotric play centre a bit in 20's and I believe his strength was his running game. He ran through a lot of traffic and had enough pace to beat defenders to the line... he actually reminded me of Brenko Lee in the 20's. His ball playing skills didn't stand out to me.
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Don Furner
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Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
Location: Canberra
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Wighton, Croker, Hodgson, Cotric
PostPosted: July 18, 2017, 11:18 am
RedRaider wrote:Sticky has rolled the dice once by changing the sides the halves play on. It may have happened before at some club under the left side/right side structure that is modern RL, but I can't remember when. That was a gutsy move by Sticky that had 'dross' written all over it until the intercept. Perhaps another couple of matches with this structure before we go making further changes. When the time comes though I hope change involves Cotric.

Interesting interview with Austen after the match in which they were talking about the length he gets on his line drop outs. He said that after training, himself, Sezer and Cotric send drop kicks to one another. The way he said it, sounded like Cotric may have a good long, accurate drop kick in his kit bag of skills as well. If that is the case and we are setting the play for a field goal, maybe the Captain could suggest the young bloke get into position to have a crack. It's not like the regular field goal (attempted) kickers are successful.


Looks like Rapa can too. He was mid field as the alternate kicker on 1 or 2 of Austin's shots.
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Laurie Daley
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PostPosted: July 18, 2017, 11:22 am
Jack is a confidence player and he currently has less than zero if it. His positioning in defence is absurd, and it puts him under a lot more pressure. I think he should go to the centres, he played his best and most consistent footy there during a stint in 2013. Raps to fullback and Croker to wing.
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